00:13:55 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:13:55] S1: Sales guys were bringing deals. You're doing the job of like finding out what's the right price. [00:13:59] S0: Yeah. You just, as a trader, you're just ensuring that you make the largest panel on your book as simple as that. So you need to hedge the book. Sometimes you also take propositions because you think, you know, market goes up, market goes down. [00:14:13] S1: And was there anything you learned in uni that was, you you know, helpful for this or no? You had to relearn everything? [00:14:19] S0: No. You knew you had to relearn everything. Yeah. [00:14:22] S1: Just the core math that you learned in university? [00:14:24] S0: I mean, the reality back in uni, I was studying like, you know, blacks and shorts models, how to price options as a cause. But reality, you work as a trader, as a market maker, you already have tools which price options for you. And you just become, you know, so much more practical in terms of how you value options. [00:14:43] S1: Okay. So then you're at Lehman. I mean, you were a trader and then it collapsed. Right? Like, were there when it collapsed. [00:14:48] S0: How was that? Think I was like '22 back then. '22. That's Yeah. Was fun fun experience. [00:14:54] S1: So tell me, like, what was the play by play when it collapsed? You were there.
00:14:54 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:14:54] S1: So tell me, like, what was the play by play when it collapsed? You were there. [00:14:58] S0: So on Sunday they announced that Merrill Lynch was bought out by government or bailed out and then Lehman Brothers was effectively let go. So on Monday I came to work, all the systems were closed, you can't trade. You... And there were, like, other, like, you know, two, 400 traders on the trading floor. No access to the systems. You just sit there, and they were all playing, like, the same computer game. [00:15:23] S1: Which one? [00:15:24] S0: As I'm shooting helicopters. Okay. Web based, the only game which was not blocked by corporate system. [00:15:31] S1: Wow. And... But like were the days before, did you already think it was gonna happen? Like was it really No. [00:15:37] S0: No one ever thought it would happen, to be honest. It was completely unexpected. [00:15:42] S1: Wow. So like on the Friday you're like, know, I'm just gonna come to Monday. And then Monday the show is like, oh fuck. [00:15:48] S0: It's done. But to be honest, I was very young and very confident in my abilities to find any other jobs. [00:15:55] S1: So you weren't scared? [00:15:56] S0: No, not at all for me. It's like interesting what happened there. [00:15:59] S1: Yeah. Good learning. [00:15:59] S0: Completely. Yeah, exactly. [00:16:01] S1: Is there any learning that you took at that time about like, you know, what to do, what not to do, life, anything that we were thinking at that moment in time?
00:16:01 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:16:01] S1: Is there any learning that you took at that time about like, you know, what to do, what not to do, life, anything that we were thinking at that moment in time? [00:16:09] S0: I mean, be honest, I was so confident in myself that, you know, in my mind, like I can do anything. Would never be without like, you know, money or something. [00:16:19] S1: Where do you think all that confidence kinda came from? Like did you just win a lot [00:16:23] S0: when you're... Yeah. Exactly. I think you know when I when I was a kid because of all these competitions. Because if you build certain track record also because you know, universities were very hard with exams. You kind of learned how to... [00:16:34] S1: And you were always like number one or something? Then you were like... [00:16:37] S0: First years in university, was like always like, you know, top grades and so on. But then I started working as well. And then I realized, you know, like going deep into science is not for me. So I started doing like, you know, some side projects, started working as well. [00:16:53] S1: Like what side projects? [00:16:55] S0: I was like, just to make money, like different things. Because back then, like a lot of students were trying, for example, buying cell phones, selling cell phones, this kind of thing. [00:17:04] S1: So you got into the buying cell phone business? Yeah. How did it work? Like, that was kind of your first, you know,
00:17:04 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:17:04] S1: So you got into the buying cell phone business? Yeah. How did it work? Like, that was kind of your first, you know, [00:17:11] S0: business I mean, initially I thought I lost money. Right? But then, yeah, I actually made it all back. I think I made like, you know, five to 10 X on what I put in. [00:17:20] S1: But what was the business like? What was the spy and cell phone business? [00:17:23] S0: So basically there were guys who were kind of, who had their, I think one shop and it was really, you know, going well. They were selling cell phones. They wanted to expand. [00:17:36] S1: Like a retail shop, normal retail shop. [00:17:37] S0: Yeah, yeah. So, and so I gave them money and they went to the business, but then the business didn't do well initially. I thought I was lost at all. [00:17:47] S1: How about how do you get the money to give them? You're so young, right? [00:17:51] S0: Yeah. Desire to make money, right? Desire to take risk. [00:17:56] S1: But how did you have the money to give to them? [00:17:57] S0: Oh, because I was also working part time [00:17:59] S1: as well. Oh, you're working part time? [00:18:00] S0: Part time, yes. So I had... [00:18:01] S1: For what? [00:18:03] S0: So basically I was doing... I was working part time at the Institute of Economic Research. [00:18:07] S1: A what? [00:18:08] S0: It's Economic Research Institute. I forgot its name. [00:18:11] S1: But it's kinda like a research job?
00:18:11 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:18:11] S1: But it's kinda like a research job? [00:18:13] S0: Yes. Like a research job. So basically what you do, they give you a problem, then you read many, many articles of foreign literature scientists on this problem. Right? Then what you do, you just design certain way to solve the problem that you discovered in these articles, right? Then you effectively program it and start that you calculate certain things, then you write it down. And then I think they resell research to the government afterwards. [00:18:41] S1: So this is the first job effectively? [00:18:43] S0: Yeah. Was my first job. Yeah. [00:18:44] S1: Okay. So you're making some money from this and then you're using it to, I still don't understand a cell phone business. You would like give them money to expand their retail stuff. [00:18:52] S0: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:53] S1: So it's kind of an investment. [00:18:55] S0: Kind of, yeah. [00:18:56] S1: Okay. So they were doing super well just retailing cell phones and you give some some weight. [00:19:01] S0: I mean, didn't work well initially but they then it worked well and then in a year they returned this money. [00:19:07] S1: So how old were you when you made this like first cell phone money, guess? [00:19:12] S0: Like 19 probably. [00:19:13] S1: Okay. So you had some cons like, I made money when I'm 19. I can probably keep making money. Yeah. [00:19:17] S0: Of course. Yeah. [00:19:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think like there's a lot of people that like that's not their... Like, they're 22 and they're like not confident, you know? And I
00:19:18 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:19:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think like there's a lot of people that like that's not their... Like, they're 22 and they're like not confident, you know? And I [00:19:25] S0: think that's... [00:19:25] S1: It does seem like a pattern I see in a lot of people who are successful that they're just, like, hyper confident when [00:19:30] S0: they're young. [00:19:31] S1: Had the same thing. I was, like, a 100% sure everything was [00:19:34] S0: gonna work for feel like 100% sure that I can make money. Yeah. [00:19:37] S1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's... I try to describe that to people today. And sometimes I come out as, like, not relatable because people are like, what do mean you were a 100% sure? I just don't know. I was a 100% sure, you know? And I think part of it is then you're pitching, you're doing, you're recruiting, everything, you know, that confidence kinda transpires or Exactly. [00:19:55] S0: You just build a track record on your... Because you're also young, you have a track record, and then you're extremely confident. [00:20:00] S1: Exactly. Okay. So Lehman Brothers, you're trading there, it collapsed, and then what do you do? [00:20:05] S0: So my boss, he actually went to Credit Suisse and then he hired myself with him as well. So he he was hired in Credit Suisse, and then he hired me. [00:20:14] S1: For... Dude, same thing, trading? [00:20:15] S0: Same thing. Yeah. [00:20:16] S1: Trading. Well, funny that Credit Suisse also. Years later. [00:20:20] S0: I was actually... First had a job in Nomura for one month. [00:20:25] S1: To Nomura?