Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:13:31 · Lenny Rachitsky, Boris Cherny
[01:13:31] S1: Wow. [01:13:32] S0: You mix it up, and then you just let it sit. You have to be very, very patient. So, the thing that I love about it is just thinking in these long time skills. And, yeah. I think post-AGI or if I wasn't at Anthropic, I'd probably be making miso. [01:13:46] S1: I love this answer. Ben asked me to ask you about what's the deal with you and Miso. And so, I love that you answered it. Okay. So, the future might be just going deep into miso, getting really good at making miso. Amazing. Boris, this was incredible. I feel like we're brothers now from Ukraine. Before we get to our very exciting lightning round, is there anything else that you wanted to share? Is there anything you wanted to leave listeners with? Anything you want to double down on?
01:14:18 · Boris Cherny, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:14:18] S0: Yeah. I think I would just underscore for Anthropic since the beginning, this idea of starting at coding, then getting to tool use, then getting to computer use has just been the way that we think about things. And this is the way that we know the models are going to develop, or the way that we want to build our models. And it's also the way that we get to learn about safety, study it, and improve it the most. So, everything that's happening right now around just Claude Code becoming this huge multi-billion dollar business, and now all of my friends use Claude Code, and they just text me about it all the time. So, this thing getting big. In some ways, it's a total surprise, because this isn't the ... We didn't know that it would be this product. We didn't know that it would start in a terminal, or anything like this. But, in some ways, it's just totally unsurprising, because this has been our belief as a company for a long time. At the same time, it just feels still very early. Like, most of the world still does not use Claude Code, most of the world still does not use AI. So, it just feels like this is 1% on, and there's so much more to go. [01:15:21] S1: Oh, man. That's insane to think, seeing the numbers that are coming out. You guys just raised a bazillion dollars. I think Claude Code alone is making $2 billion revenue. Anthropic, I think the number you guys put out, you're making $15 billion in revenue. It's insane to just think this is how early it still is, and just the numbers we're seeing.
01:15:21 · Lenny Rachitsky, Boris Cherny
[01:15:21] S1: Oh, man. That's insane to think, seeing the numbers that are coming out. You guys just raised a bazillion dollars. I think Claude Code alone is making $2 billion revenue. Anthropic, I think the number you guys put out, you're making $15 billion in revenue. It's insane to just think this is how early it still is, and just the numbers we're seeing. [01:15:42] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And the way that Claude Code has kept growing is, honestly, just the users. Like, so many people use it. They're so passionate about it. They fall in love with the product, and then they tell us about stuff that doesn't work, stuff that they want. And so, the only reason that it keeps improving is because everyone is using it, everyone is talking about it, everyone keeps giving feedback. And this is just the single most important thing. And, for me, this is the way that I love to spend my days just talking to users, and making it better for them. [01:16:09] S1: And making miso. [01:16:11] S0: And making miso. Well, the miso is not super evolved. You've just got to wait. [01:16:14] S1: You've just got to wait. Well, Boris, with that, we've reached our very exciting lighting round. I've got five questions for you. Are you ready? [01:16:23] S0: Let's do it. [01:16:24] S1: First question, what are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people?
01:16:24 · Lenny Rachitsky, Boris Cherny
[01:16:24] S1: First question, what are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people? [01:16:29] S0: I'm a big reader. I would start with a technical book. It is Functional Programming in Scala. This is the single best technical book I have ever read. It's very weird, because you're probably not going to use Scala. And I don't know how much this matters in the future now, but there's this just elegance to functional programming and thinking in types, and this is just the way that I code, and the way that I can't stop thinking about coding. [01:16:29] S1: Wow. [01:16:51] S0: So, you could think of it as a historical artifact. You could think of it as- [01:16:51] S1: A deep cut. [01:16:54] S0: ... something that will level you up. [01:16:56] S1: I love this. A never before mentioned book. My favorite.
01:16:56 · Lenny Rachitsky, Boris Cherny
[01:16:56] S1: I love this. A never before mentioned book. My favorite. [01:16:59] S0: Oh, amazing. Amazing. Okay. Second one is Accelerando by Stross. My big genre is sci-fi. Probably sci-fi and fiction. Accelerando is just this incredible book. And it's just so fast-paced. The pace gets faster and faster and faster. And I just feel like it captures the essence of this moment that we're in more than any other book that I've read, just the speed of it. And it starts as a lift-off is starting to happening, and is starting to approach the singularity. And it ends with this collective lobster consciousness orbiting Jupiter. And this happens over the span of a few decades or something. So, the pace is just incredible. I really love it. Maybe I'll do one more book. The Wandering Earth. Wandering Earth by Liu Cixin. So, he's the guy that did Three Body Problem. I think a lot of people know him for that. Actually I think Three Body Problem was awesome, but I actually liked his short stories even more. So, Wandering Earth is one of the short story collections, and he just has some really, really amazing stories. And it's also just quite interesting to see Chinese sci-fi, because it has a very different perspective than western sci-fi, and the way that, at least, he, as a writer, thinks about it. So, it's just really, really interesting to read, and just beautifully written. [01:18:15] S1: It's so interesting how sci-fi has prepared us to think about where things are going. It creates these [inaudible 01:18:21] models of like, "Okay. I see. I've read about this sort of world."
01:18:15 · Lenny Rachitsky, Boris Cherny
[01:18:15] S1: It's so interesting how sci-fi has prepared us to think about where things are going. It creates these [inaudible 01:18:21] models of like, "Okay. I see. I've read about this sort of world." [01:18:24] S0: Yeah. I think, for me, this was the reason that I joined Anthropic actually, because, like I said, I was living in this rural place. I was thinking these long-time skills, because everything is just so slow out there. At least, compared to SF. And just all the things that you do are based around the seasons, and it's based around this food that takes many, many months. That's the way that social events were organized. That's the way that you organize your time. You go to the farmer's market, and it's persimmon season, and you know that, because there's 20 persimmon vendors. And then the next week the season is done, and it's, like, grape season. And you see this. So, it's these long-time skills. And I was also reading a bunch of sci-fi at the time. And just being in this moment, I was just thinking about these long-time skills. I know how this thing can go. And I felt like I had to contribute to it going a little bit better. And that's actually why I ended up at Ant. And Ben Mann was also a big part of that too. [01:19:17] S1: I feel like I want to do a whole podcast just talking about your time in Japan, and the journey of Boris through Japan to Anthropic. But we'll keep it short. I'll quickly recommend a sci-fi book to you if you haven't read it. Have you read Fire Upon The Deep? [01:19:32] S0: This is Vinge. Right? Yeah. [01:19:33] S1: Yes.