Long Strange Trip: CEO to CEO with Brian Halligan
00:42:51 · Chase Lochmiller, Brian Halligan
[00:42:51] S0: I'm in the middle of the two, for sure. [00:42:52] S1: Okay, fine. Yeah. Speaking of teams and people, one thing that is fascinating about your business, and I just think about the culture we built at HubSpot, people rhymed at HubSpot. But on your... In your organization, you have AI researchers and you have welders. How do you create a culture across all of them? Are they different cultures? How do you comp people across all of it? How does all that work? [00:43:17] S0: Yeah, it's a great question. We've always felt like we've had an incredibly diverse culture just from the people that are coming to help build this. And one of our core values is tapping into the collective genius, right? It's like no one person has all the domain expertise to deliver the full solution that we're trying to bring to bear. And we all can learn from one another. And all of us working together towards a cohesive solution is going to result in an amplified result that none of us could have done individually. And there have been critical innovations that people have gotten from people like electricians that are working on wiring things up to the researchers are then benefiting from those specific use cases. And you know, how we think about, you know, the whole building management system, how we think about sort of the operating system from, you know, the electron to the token, I think is something that really sets us apart.
00:43:17 · Chase Lochmiller, Brian Halligan
[00:43:17] S0: Yeah, it's a great question. We've always felt like we've had an incredibly diverse culture just from the people that are coming to help build this. And one of our core values is tapping into the collective genius, right? It's like no one person has all the domain expertise to deliver the full solution that we're trying to bring to bear. And we all can learn from one another. And all of us working together towards a cohesive solution is going to result in an amplified result that none of us could have done individually. And there have been critical innovations that people have gotten from people like electricians that are working on wiring things up to the researchers are then benefiting from those specific use cases. And you know, how we think about, you know, the whole building management system, how we think about sort of the operating system from, you know, the electron to the token, I think is something that really sets us apart. [00:44:15] S1: I read an article in the journal about VCs and people in your industry when they're presenting conferences, like people are attacking them or protesting them, and you're sort of in the middle of a wave. It's an election issue around the data centers. And I've heard your story on why it's good for communities and why it's great for humanity. Are you facing some of that heavy criticism yourself, and how do you deal with it personally? Is... Do you have security? Like, where are... How how tricky is this for you?
00:44:15 · Brian Halligan, Chase Lochmiller
[00:44:15] S1: I read an article in the journal about VCs and people in your industry when they're presenting conferences, like people are attacking them or protesting them, and you're sort of in the middle of a wave. It's an election issue around the data centers. And I've heard your story on why it's good for communities and why it's great for humanity. Are you facing some of that heavy criticism yourself, and how do you deal with it personally? Is... Do you have security? Like, where are... How how tricky is this for you? [00:44:48] S0: The way I think about it is when I look around at the people at Crusoe, these are all people that want to do good for the world. There's not a single person I met at Crusoe that doesn't want to do good for the world. And I believe fundamentally that there is a right way to, you know, bring this infrastructure to life where everybody can benefit. You know, energy, you know, from a water usage standpoint, from a tax revenue standpoint, from a school and community standpoint, and then from, you know, the end use cases and how it's actually fueling human progress through, you know, the greatest technological wave we've ever experienced. [00:45:26] S1: I've heard I've heard you explain it. You explain it extremely well, and you make a lot of sense. And I wish the rest of the AI leaders would explain it as well as you did. But, like, for you, you must be catching a lot of flak in, like
00:45:40 · Chase Lochmiller
[00:45:40] S0: Well, so my major thing is, like, I'm I'm... I always try to take a very first principled approach to things. And if I have high conviction in something, like, I've built up from a a set of ground truth facts, I have no problem disagreeing with someone. And I can try to poke holes into why someone else, I think, is wrong and why we're trying to do things the right way. But I do feel like fundamentally at Crusoe, permeates in the culture, people want to do this the right way. People want to do this as a as a good service to the world. This has become a political issue, particularly around the, you know, the the AI data centers. And there's just so much misinformation around this out there that I've often said that what the data center industry... Their biggest problem is we have a marketing problem. We haven't been able to get the truth out there. And to me, the truth is on our side. And so when you explain the truth... And I've been in these rooms, you know, where I go to these local communities, I meet with the county judge, I meet with folks in these communities where we're building infrastructure. And when you sit down and you really explain to them what's happening, and, you know, you're not coming at it from like a, Hey, I'm smarter than you. You got to, like, listen to me. It's like, Here's just, like, what's happening, and here's how we're trying to do our very best to make it, good for you and good for us and good for the world. And, you know, I think when you have those conversations, like, people are receptive to it, right? Independent of politics, you know, political allegiances, I think people are receptive to authenticity and facts. And so that's really our approach to this. Now, am I worried from a security standpoint? Sure. We've had to increase our security footprint just given there's crazy people out there that wanna wanna wanna create a big statement. So... Yeah.
00:47:38 · Brian Halligan, Chase Lochmiller
[00:47:38] S1: Yeah. And so I assume some of these rooms you're walking into, there's some hysterical people. What is that like, the first room you walk into, and people are screaming and yelling at you? Like, there's no training for that. [00:47:50] S0: Again, I I think, honestly, like, appealing to, you know, their humanity and, like, understanding why someone may be, you know, saying what they're saying. I think listening to the facts. I think, like, you know, I often have very strong opinions, but I can always change them in light of new information and new facts. So, like, that's, like, I think it's important to have that, like, intellectual flexibility to say, like, Hey, I had high conviction that we're doing things the right way. Upon learning this new thing, we should probably be doing this differently, and we could probably be doing this better. And I think, like, that is, like, an inherent growth mindset that we have here as a company. And, you know, I've tried to channel as a leader, like, to have the ability to listen to these criticisms and try to filter out what is crazed hysteria that's unfounded in truth and what's legitimate critical feedback that we should, you know, be using to become a better steward of these communities. [00:48:53] S1: Do you think having thick skin is a very important attribute for a CEO?
00:48:53 · Brian Halligan, Chase Lochmiller
[00:48:53] S1: Do you think having thick skin is a very important attribute for a CEO? [00:48:59] S0: 100%. Like... Yeah. I mean, just your job is to, like, cons... Be the receiver of bad news very frequently and then be able to think with a clear mind and, you know, make decisions in light of that that that bad news. And I think the other thing that is important for a leader is, and frankly, something that I'm always struggling with, is as the company grows and the company gets bigger, I'm further from a distance from individuals on the front lines of the company. So trying to close the gap, making sure that I'm always approachable, that people can speak truth to power. You want to be in a position where people can voice their concerns and be heard. And in light of presenting truth in the context of everything else that's happening, that you can actually adjust the direction of your business. [00:50:00] S1: Do you have methods to encourage that to make sure people will stand up to you? Because the 2,000 person you hire, they put you on a pedestal. The twentieth person's beating you up day to day.