Long Strange Trip: CEO to CEO with Brian Halligan
00:30:40 · Chase Lochmiller
[00:30:40] S0: Part of it was we had a great partner that we felt like this business we built would land in a really good home, which was NYDIG. And and, you know, I I really... Ross Stevens has become a a a good friend, you know, over the years, and I I... And Tejas Shah, who's the CEO there, you know, just deep amount of respect for that team. And we felt like they were great people that would, you know, be great stewards of this business. And they had a lot of experience within natural gas in terms of, you know, Stone Ridge has built out one of the largest natural gas businesses in The United States. And so this intersection of people that knew and had operated natural gas assets at scale and were deeply involved in the Bitcoin ecosystem, we felt like they were they were great partners for that business. But really, I I think what drove me to divest that business was really focus. And, you know, we we are doing a lot at Crusoe, and increasingly, we were doing more. And it felt like we were having to balance this tension between, do we allocate capital and resources and attention towards our Bitcoin business or against this AI infrastructure business? And and we were also getting feedback from investors where, you know, it would make the story too complex in the eye of an investor, where they would say, Okay, I love what you're doing over here on this AI business, but my firm were actually blocked from making any investments that are tied to crypto. So there were challenges to just making the business focused and making it, you know, this category defining company across vertically integrated AI infrastructure and not having the distraction of being anything related to Bitcoin. And so, you know, I am still personally a huge Bitcoin supporter and holder. And, you know, I think it's an important thing to exist for the world as a, you know, non state controlled, decentralized, digitally native, open monetary ecosystem. But it was the right thing for Crusoe to go all in on AI infrastructure.
00:32:50 · Brian Halligan
[00:32:50] S1: One thing I'm noticing about you on this call, and I've watched you in other formats, is you're very polished, Chase. Most CEOs don't have your level of polish. Is that something you learned along the way? You said you had a coach. Did your coach help you with that?
00:33:10 · Chase Lochmiller
[00:33:10] S0: I had a coach, and I I still... We're we're still we're still quite close. We're not working as closely together as we once did. But Shane Metcalf, he he was a phenomenal, phenomenal coach for me. I learned so much from him. I... Public speaking was never something that came naturally to me. It was something I had to work really, really hard at, because I I just wasn't doing it. Like, I'd given lectures and things, like, at, you know, universities. And, but it it wasn't a... It wasn't something that I was routinely doing, especially... Like, the quant space is a very... You know, it's a very technical industry, so you're working with very smart people, but you're you're doing it in a very secretive way. Right? It's like you you're very open with your teammates, and then you don't tell anything to anybody in the world about what you're doing for fear that you might leak some of your alpha. So I was never out in the world presenting stuff. And so it was something that I had to work very, very hard at to just be prepared for what I was going to say, how I was going to say it. And I think if you do it enough, you just get practice. And at some point, you just, like, stop having to prepare as much for things. And then most things at this point, I kind of just, like, wing them. Because, you know, the... Like, there... There's certainly things that, like, just require a tremendous amount of preparation. But, you know, I think I'm often better off the cuff because I... You know, it's just, like, how how I think through things. And I... I'm I'm... I've developed a a good skill set of being able to explain what's in my mind, you know, fairly clearly to to to whoever to I'm talking to.
00:34:47 · Brian Halligan, Chase Lochmiller
[00:34:47] S1: What else did you learn from... First of all, should all the CEOs I work with hire a coach? Yes. In like... Yes. Okay. Interesting. What did you learn... Like, what did Shane teach you, or what did he push you on? [00:34:58] S0: You know, one of our investors, Felicis, they had this really cool thing they do for for companies, and I haven't seen anybody else do this. But they have a budget for, like, personal investment, essentially. It's it's like, you know, it's it's not... It's it's, like, meant for, like, self improvement. It's meant for things like executive coaching and off sites and just ways of up leveling yourself as a leader Because they're like, Look, we're making this big investment in, like, the founder or the CEO, and, you know, we're betting on you being able to get better. That you're a static version of yourself, that you're actually gonna be a, you know, a better version of yourself over the course of time, you know, as the business grows. And, you know, I think... I I just thought that was, like, such a thoughtful approach to the investment, especially, like, in venture where, like, the investments are so much about the people and the ability of the founder to scale. You know, I... Shane... Like, early days, it just felt like Shane was a guy that, like, always had the answer to the problem that I was, like, racking my brain on. And, you know, he was as much of a coach as like almost like a therapist for me. [00:36:13] S1: That's how I feel with my CEO, as much as coach as a therapist.
00:36:16 · Chase Lochmiller
[00:36:16] S0: It was... So, you know, we really did have a very, you know, still do a very, very special relationship that's very trusted. And I I I just felt like, you know, it's something you have to work at, and you build this trust with a person. And even if it doesn't feel like you're making progress on any given session, you're laying the groundwork and you're laying this foundation for when that really big thing does pop up. This person knows you so deeply, and they know where your blind spots are, and they know how you might be responding in a certain situation, and they know how to, like, guide you to course correct, to be able to, you know, rise to whatever occasion it is. And, you know, I think... I don't know. I mean, people say this, and it's... You know, I may sound like I'm repeating the common folklore, but so many of the problems with building companies are people problems, right? Being able to effectively navigate the people side of this is like it's... That's like most of the challenges. Like, you know, you get these smart, ambitious, opinionated people getting everybody to work and row in the same direction and agree on things, or if they don't agree, to commit to whatever pathway you're taking. I mean, that is always the hardest thing. And as a CEO, I think sometimes the biggest challenges are, when do I keep believing in someone and when do I decide, hey, we need to move on and we need a different person in this role? Or how do we get two brilliant people to work together on something that are fundamentally disagreeing? I don't know. I've just found the people to be the hardest thing and also the greatest superpower if you can get it right.
00:38:02 · Brian Halligan, Chase Lochmiller
[00:38:02] S1: People always said to me, you should hire slow and fire fast. I did the opposite, particularly on the fireside. It sounds like you moved some people out. Did you do it too slowly? Did you ever regret it? What were the signals that kind of push you over the edge? [00:38:21] S0: I think almost always there's a bias towards... You just end up firing people too slowly. It's it's just like there's an inherent bias. So even if you're very responsive, like, you know, I I I do think that for most CEOs, you know, when you fire someone, you've clearly been thinking about it for a long time. And it's almost like when you started thinking about it, that was sort of the right time to fire them. But, like, you know, it's hard to... [00:38:49] S1: What signal do you... Are you looking at? Is it other people on the team saying this person's subpar? Is it... What is it?