A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:37:33 · Daniel Saks, Pablo Srugo
[00:37:33] S0: yeah so it's surprising that if you have cloud code and cloud code or codex is like indexing a lot of your stuff your calls your slack your CRM it's gonna know a ton about what's working what's not and who you should go after and we also put all of our customer case studies in skill files in our Claude so what I'd recommend is like a step one for a company and this could be really any company of any size but it's how do you give agents context to your win-loss to your customers your call records the agents can very effectively reason over your data to be able to say okay this is what each person needs but you do need to put in place checks and balances to make sure that the output is strong and it doesn't come across as a slopp so we work with our partners depending on their level of technical maturity to think through skill files and templates and ways to identify how to best activate their outbound motions but it's possible today to have really good understanding of like who your best customers are and why and therefore other customers that look like them that should have similar value and you know cloud code or codex can just do that for you they can apply with land basis data plus your data they can understand okay here are similar companies the ones that you're going after today here are similar people use this case study data and go after them [00:38:53] S2: and you're going after them like just here's a cold email here's a case study over cold email for example for your 10 accounts yeah
00:38:53 · Pablo Srugo, Daniel Saks
[00:38:53] S2: and you're going after them like just here's a cold email here's a case study over cold email for example for your 10 accounts yeah [00:39:00] S0: so normally we do omni channel outreach it's cold email and it's linked in from the top accounts it's coming from me for lower tier accounts it's maybe coming from our SDRs but for our top tier accounts I'd also be you know offering you know potentially like an in-person meeting or a contact or seeing about an event we do conference campaigns so I'm speaking at Pavilion NYC in September Landbase has the data on predicting who's going to be at the conference we could do pre-outreach to tee up those meetings so I think the key theme depending on your level of cloud or AI maturity is you can orchestrate a lot of this centrally in cloud code if it has the right context and you can do what would have previously taken teams of hundreds of people and you can do it really effectively but the key is giving the agents the right context to enable your humans to have the best outcomes [00:39:50] S2: what's a good expectation on like let's say you're doing this stuff right you're in like we're talking cold outbound right in terms of response rates right like what kind of volume do you need to operate at even just to see any level of success
00:39:50 · Pablo Srugo, Daniel Saks
[00:39:50] S2: what's a good expectation on like let's say you're doing this stuff right you're in like we're talking cold outbound right in terms of response rates right like what kind of volume do you need to operate at even just to see any level of success [00:40:01] S0: so it's really tough out there on email I think there's a lot of people on LinkedIn who say oh I have like these high response rates but we see aggregate in millions of volume I think in general you're looking at a 2% response rate even on a good list for email because of span and deliverability but if you have a tight list and it's pretty strong you can get to 8% to 10% and then hypothesize that stronger companies with big brands like a rippling ramp might be in the 20% range but that's very rare and they've spent a lot of time on you know customized outreach I think for connect rates it's similar where industry connect rates you know people talk about 8% to 10% as being normal and great [00:40:39] S2: connect rate being what like connecting on LinkedIn or are you talking about connecting in a meeting
00:40:39 · Pablo Srugo, Daniel Saks
[00:40:39] S2: connect rate being what like connecting on LinkedIn or are you talking about connecting in a meeting [00:40:42] S0: no phone connect rate so if you're a dialer for however many calls how many pickups there are and in general we find a lot of companies that are sitting at like 2% connect rates they struggle then if you have the right list you can uplift that to 8% to 10% a lot of these fractional SDRs that I was talking about Fletcher Cox Tony Brophy we were able to 2x or even 4x their connect rates which follows on to booking meeting rates and the economics for this is incredible because if you were an SDR spending 30% of your time list building and then maybe a lot of time doing extra research you know originally like call it 94% of the people you're calling are not picking up it's tough but if you automate all your list building you have this automated TAM map and then all of a sudden you're getting 4x connect uplift you're you know and every day you're booking way more meetings so that's the power of what we're doing is we're using agents and agentic AI to make sure that as a seller you're getting better shot with the people that you're targeting [00:41:39] S2: and what's the answer to it in the sense that if you've got like how many accounts are you personally going after
00:41:39 · Pablo Srugo, Daniel Saks
[00:41:39] S2: and what's the answer to it in the sense that if you've got like how many accounts are you personally going after [00:41:44] S0: I would have 100 in my top heat map and I would limit it not just to accounts but to the people within the accounts so I'm going after the exec sponsors but then I have my team that would go after the people on the ground so my outreach would be more to a CEO or potentially a CRO and then my team would map in different levels [00:42:02] S2: how far would you take it like just to follow up on that you're going after a CEO you hit him up three times like would you just hit him up X times over each quarter so we've seen
00:42:11 · Daniel Saks
[00:42:11] S0: all the data on this you could do different it's called a sequence so we enable omnichannel sequences meaning hit them up first you know with email then a call then LinkedIn connect with them on LinkedIn but don't send the message until later we've done testing on all of it and what we found is generally three sequences is going to get you 90% of it if you go to five maybe you get an extra 10% but you risk people flagging you for spam so I'd say like the sweet spot is probably three maybe four if you have the right message and then I'd say that what people underestimate is that they could send emails and not get email responses but people do see it and then you become a familiar name when you call you can reference that email and one of my first jobs back in the day this is when I was in college was a wealth manager at Royal Bank of Canada I worked for a wealth manager doing old school prospecting and he literally gave me a physical phone book and said go find rich people in a zip code and start calling out at the time you know what I learned is that if you were to just say hi I'm Daniel Saks calling on behalf of Ami Shore from RBC you know do you want to talk it would be like a weaker signal but what we actually did is send physical mail first and we'd say hey I'm calling from RBC did you see the message we sent to you with like a portfolio review offer and then they say oh well I don't maybe I saw it maybe I didn't but that facilitates a better hook for a conversation so I think the key thing is you can warm people up to the calls by using multi-channel touches and the key thing here is always to just build trust and credibility so what I'm doing with my whole team is encouraging them to build brands within LinkedIn and I find that my sales team members that have bigger LinkedIn following are the ones that get better credibility because people look them up right away and want to work with them my team has tons of outbound calls going all the time and I get snippets of them and I you know look at them for QA but just this morning there was like one of our target accounts was reached out by by one of my SDRs and the guy said well let me just make sure you're legit I'm going to look you up and he goes like looks up land bait looks up the guy's name Max Wu and Max has 10,000 followers on LinkedIn and he's like oh yeah you're legit you're a thoug