Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:01:40 · Lenny Rachitsky, Ian Silber
[01:01:40] S0: All right, here we go. What are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people? [01:01:47] S1: It's funny, I'm not a big, big book recommender. I think when people ask me, I do get asked about books for design, and I haven't found that many that really have stuck with me purely design. Although I will say I do love the Design of Everyday Things. I think that's such a classic. [01:02:07] S0: That's the one. [01:02:11] S1: Yeah, it's not a unique recommendation, but it is just kind of a classic of thinking about how we think how I think about design. [01:02:20] S0: You have to read it if you're in tech or not even in tech. [01:02:22] S1: Yeah. [01:02:24] S0: Awesome. Anything else there or should we keep moving? [01:02:27] S1: We can keep moving. Yeah. [01:02:28] S0: Let's do it. Favorite recent movie or TV show that you have really enjoyed? [01:02:33] S1: Okay. So I have one that actually is not a movie or TV show, but I'm in New York. I just saw a Broadway show called Maybe Happy Ending. [01:02:43] S0: Yes, I've seen it. Love it so much. [01:02:44] S1: You saw it? [01:02:44] S0: Yes. [01:02:47] S1: Oh, you saw it. Okay. Yeah. It was so unique. And of course it kind of hit home a little bit because it's about these super intelligent humanoid robots. But the production was incredible. The set design, everything about it I though was so unique, which was I thought... Yeah, so if you have the chance to see it, I though it was really, really good. I also just saw The Invite, which was I thought... Have you seen it?
01:02:47 · Ian Silber, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:02:47] S1: Oh, you saw it. Okay. Yeah. It was so unique. And of course it kind of hit home a little bit because it's about these super intelligent humanoid robots. But the production was incredible. The set design, everything about it I though was so unique, which was I thought... Yeah, so if you have the chance to see it, I though it was really, really good. I also just saw The Invite, which was I thought... Have you seen it? [01:03:23] S0: Yes, also love it. It's so simple, but so good. [01:03:29] S1: That's what I loved about it is it's so simple. It actually is like a play and it's just four people in one kind of beautiful apartment and the set design's amazing. But the writing, everything about it was incredible and it's just kind of a wild ride. And knowing nothing about it, I thought it was incredible. [01:03:52] S0: Excellent taste, sir. I love both those so much. And The Invite just came out. It's in theaters right now. [01:03:57] S1: Yeah. [01:03:58] S0: Next question. Favorite product you've recently discovered that you really love?
01:03:58 · Lenny Rachitsky, Ian Silber
[01:03:58] S0: Next question. Favorite product you've recently discovered that you really love? [01:04:02] S1: I feel kind of like a typical Silicon Valley person recommending this one or something, but I did finally switch to an EV after having many cars for a long time. I got a Rivian and I don't know, I do respect the design a lot of just how they've really made it just all of the... I think of probably Tesla's similar, but there's a lot of assumptions that how operating a car should work or have gone away. You just walk up to it unlocks. It's like you don't have to turn on and off the car. And it's cool to see that evolving. Of course I love... Waymos are probably, if I could own a Waymo right now, that is the most magical experience in the world. And I'm waiting on bated breath for that to be broadly accessible for everybody. [01:05:03] S0: Do you have a favorite life motto that you find yourself coming back to in work or in life? [01:05:07] S1: Not necessarily, other than I think trying to sum up how I felt about all of this is have fun with it and just try stuff. And I think don't feel like... I've never felt like you have to fit into a specific box and know that it's perfectly all right to be very fluid about the way you work or the way you think about things. And I don't know, be flexible and adaptable. But yeah, it's not quite a life motto, more of a vibe of just trying to have fun with it and build great stuff.
01:05:07 · Ian Silber, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:05:07] S1: Not necessarily, other than I think trying to sum up how I felt about all of this is have fun with it and just try stuff. And I think don't feel like... I've never felt like you have to fit into a specific box and know that it's perfectly all right to be very fluid about the way you work or the way you think about things. And I don't know, be flexible and adaptable. But yeah, it's not quite a life motto, more of a vibe of just trying to have fun with it and build great stuff. [01:05:42] S0: I should shift this question to what's just the vibe. The vibe that's been helpful to you because I love that. It's very a Sam Altman in terms of just you can just build stuff. [01:05:50] S1: Exactly. Yeah. [01:05:52] S0: Okay. Last question. Something I love about your career history, if you look at your LinkedIn, you were a designer at Groupon. I love that you were a Groupon and now you're heading design for essentially super intelligence. What's something you learned at Groupon that is maybe helpful these days building super intelligent AI?
01:06:10 · Ian Silber
[01:06:10] S1: I love that. Groupon was a really fun company. Andrew Mason was a really incredible CEO in just that he brought such character to the product. It was kind of a brand-led product. And there was a comedy team. They were a writer team, but they were all comedians basically. And the product really did not take itself seriously, at least in its early couple years. It didn't take itself seriously. And I think that the brand really stuck out. You weren't signing up for Groupon because... Of course the daily deal was great. You were getting 50% off something, but people loved that email because it was really well written and it was funny and it had character. And I thought that early on, the company did a really good job with brand and sort of embracing that side of things. And I think the other thing, if I were to carry that forward is I found that every company that I've worked for has such unique DNA. And the way you have to work maybe changes a little bit based on that. So Groupon was run one way. Then I went to Instagram, which was this very design and creativity focused. And Kevin Systrom was really an incredible designer and he sort of saw himself or worked in that way with us, which was really cool and it just created a different way of working. And then you have Sam Altman, who's a completely different way of operating, and OpenAI being a research lab. And so learning that companies have these really different DNAs and understanding how to embrace them and leverage that to your, or help empower that or I guess lean into that has been something that I've learned a lot from moving around and getting the opportunity to work at very, very different companies.
01:08:26 · Lenny Rachitsky, Ian Silber
[01:08:26] S0: And also just to add to that, it's also important to realize you're not going to change that. You're not going to come in and change that culture because that's very hard, especially if it's very founder-oriented. [01:08:36] S1: I think it's about finding like, oh wow, at OpenAI, yeah, sure. We spent more time... At Instagram, we definitely moved slower. And I would say that we changed the product less. And that actually worked really well for most stages of Instagram. But I don't think that that would work in the current stage of where we're at with OpenAI in that way of working. Of course, I bring a lot to that. And I think at Instagram we have this motto, do the simple thing first, and we always use that and we really embrace that. I've tried to carry that through to the way I think about building product at OpenAI, but that's not the only way I think of working. Sometimes it's actually not necessarily the right way to think about it. Sometimes we actually do throw some things out that we're still experimenting with. And so just being really... I found that having to be flexible and not necessarily trying to change it, but trying to help round it out maybe.