Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:35:12 · Dan Lorenc, Alexa von Tobel
[00:35:12] S0: Mhmm. [00:35:12] S1: Every big company is hypercompetitive and needs to stay at the pace of a... Of of the effective AGI that we now have. The surface area for gaps is growing. Chainguard is helping us close it. Mhmm. But effectively, that does mean... You know, sort of my expectation is we're gonna see some really large breaches. We're gonna see some companies, probably the ones not using Chainguard, that have really seismic breaches of some kind that were unexpected. And I think we'll probably have some big CISO stories that... Where things go wrong because they're not necessarily set up to keep pace. [00:35:51] S0: Yep. [00:35:52] S1: And I'm just wondering, like, do you think about your own personal security diff... And I don't mean physical security like someone on the street. I mean, your digital security differently. Or do you have any practices that you don't do that we should all know of things that you wouldn't, you know, do on the Internet?
00:36:08 · Dan Lorenc
[00:36:08] S0: Yeah. I think there... There's one more element in there when you talk about all these breaches and the security gaps. And I... It it... It's the the fact that this is a multiplayer game, security. Right? It's it's not like, you know, you're building a bridge and you wanna make sure the bridge doesn't fall down. Right like we know how to do that. Matthew This is a multiplayer game, where there are attackers out there constantly trying new things and they're using this technology to and so. Matthew At the same time that you every CSO is dealing with their surface area getting a lot bigger they're also dealing with you know the APTs, the advanced persistent threats out there, also getting incredibly This great. Security capabilities. Yeah. The only real bottleneck in the past, everyone knows that, you know, a North Korea out there could break into any system given enough time. Right? There's no such thing as perfect security. The only real bottleneck was patience and time on their side because, you know, they they don't have infinite people willing to hack infinite systems over years. But that bottleneck is getting reduced. So, yeah, you're completely right. There are going to be breaches. And a lot of these breaches are going be at no fault of the companies they're doing everything they possibly could have done, but attackers are now 10 or a 100 times as capable to. For as an individual do all those things that you know you're supposed to do, but probably put off right actually set up two factor authentication everywhere Turn off the SMS ones on your phone, that kind of thing. But, yeah, it's it's just gonna happen, and we we have to kind of deal with it. And it's because the attackers are allowed to do this, and there are very little repercussions at a state level.
00:37:32 · Alexa von Tobel, Dan Lorenc
[00:37:32] S1: Two factor authentication, everybody, everywhere. Do it. Do it today. [00:37:37] S0: Best thing you can do. Yeah. [00:37:38] S1: Yeah. That is the best thing you can do. One more question just a little bit about the future is, if you're right about everything you're about what software development looks like... First of all, that's a pretty exciting world, which is you you said something quite bright in there, which is [00:37:51] S0: scary. Yeah. [00:37:52] S1: Yeah. Well, we can talk a lot more problems, which which is exciting. What disappears in the future in your mind? What goes away?
00:37:52 · Alexa von Tobel, Dan Lorenc
[00:37:52] S1: Yeah. Well, we can talk a lot more problems, which which is exciting. What disappears in the future in your mind? What goes away? [00:38:03] S0: Yeah. What actually disappears? When you look across industries too, just outside of software, I like to use a couple analogies. You know, doctors, right? I think doctors can have immense benefits from AI and these tools. They can pattern match across more cases than any one person could possibly keep in their heads. But the things with doctors, if doctors get better, you need fewer doctors, not more because they're preventing things earlier and you know, keeping people healthier longer where you don't have to go to the doctor as often. There won't be zero but assuming this future and you can, you know, get some AI scan of every single body signal and get preventive and corrective treatments and medications early. That's great for the world, but it also means probably fewer doctors. But the complete opposite side of that from a cynical view, I think, is lawyers. If lawyers get a lot more effective, we all need more lawyers, not fewer lawyers. There's gonna be a lot more lawsuits and everything like that just because it's cheaper to do all of this work and file it. So between, like, the businesses that you get better, they both get better, but they get better in different ways. [00:39:07] S1: That's that... That's so interesting. And, actually, I don't know that we want a world with a lot more lawsuits, but but here we are. [00:39:16] S0: AI judges to handle all these lawsuits.
00:39:16 · Dan Lorenc, Alexa von Tobel
[00:39:16] S0: AI judges to handle all these lawsuits. [00:39:20] S1: Dan, just given that you really are at the forefront of watching this entire wave evolve, what is the belief that you held early that you've completely changed your mind on? [00:39:30] S0: The the, you know, one of these that I was completely wrong on was how fast AI was gonna make its way into these regulated industries. It still shocks me today. I I thought we had a couple of years of people, you know, playing with this stuff before we were putting real production sensitive workloads in it. That completely shocked me. Was wrong. It, we didn't get that window, which is scary for a lot of reasons. Normally, you get some time as we move along that kind of, you know, crossing the CASM style curve for these systems to get hardened and to figure out the rough edges before they really need to be put in health care and in banking and in defense systems. We didn't get that chance here, and so now we're playing catch up. [00:40:09] S1: Actually, on that same point, I... With Claude in the last, you know, little while, not releasing mythos, how do you how do you think of that?
00:40:09 · Alexa von Tobel, Dan Lorenc
[00:40:09] S1: Actually, on that same point, I... With Claude in the last, you know, little while, not releasing mythos, how do you how do you think of that? [00:40:19] S0: Yeah. I think it's it's the responsible move. I get it, but it... It's limited the time. Someone else is gonna get these capabilities very soon. It's this crazy arms race where there's labs all over the world all building these same things. But it is the responsible way to do it give it to people to defend first before you go give a tool to everyone that can now hack any system out there. That two to three month window is great, but that two to three month window is going be gone very quickly too, and we... We've gotta figure it out. So telling everyone this is coming and doing this in this rollout, I think it it... It's great. It's smart. It's also a great press for them, all of that. But, yeah, they're not the ones controlling AI across the entire world, and not everyone is gonna be as responsible as they are. [00:41:02] S1: I wanna double click on responsibility right now, because I I think we actually all feel it. I literally can feel that we are on the edge of something that will unleash greatness, and and as you just said, is also really scary. What scares you? And what do we do about it?