Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:31:02 · Alexa von Tobel, Dan Lorenc
[00:31:02] S1: Dan, important... What you basically just said is CSOs can't afford to say no, because each month is actually, you know, ex... It's three months. It's A year is three years of their organization being behind on what's possible. So it's basically a race for relevance inside these companies. Obviously, there's different types of companies, right? And I sold LearnVest to Northwestern Mutual, a big regulated company. So in health care, in financial services, places where they're regulated businesses for a reason because the gaps of what could go wrong actually are severe and have real consequences. Do you feel like there... If if you're, like, a big financial service firm, is the safer thing to wait and see and actually just... Because breaches can be so dangerous. How do you think a little bit about the moral hazard decision of CSOs right now in different types of companies? [00:32:07] S0: Yeah. I... I'm a little surprised that you don't see that a real change there in adoption between, you know, the most heavily regulated companies out there and startups. [00:32:17] S1: Wow. [00:32:18] S0: Yeah. It's... They all get it. You know, the CIOs of the biggest banks there are, you know, telling their teams to get on board here, because they know if they're not one of their competitors will. You know, there's a... One of the largest, oldest banks in The US has agents inside of their org chart as employees. [00:32:35] S1: Yeah.
00:32:35 · Alexa von Tobel, Dan Lorenc
[00:32:35] S1: Yeah. [00:32:35] S0: They're they're really leaning in here. Most shifts, yeah, you see the laggards, you know, the basic kind of crossing the chasm curve. That's all compressed. Even the the people that are going slower, like, two months behind, not six years behind like they would normally be with a technology rollout. And, you know, they're depending on everyone else to figure out to do it safely, but they have to be able to ingest that very quickly to that knowledge and those practices. You know, we had a customer conference a month or so ago, you know, I asked everyone, like, raise your hand if you're using AI. Everyone in the room, their hand goes up. Raise your hand if your security team is happy about it. You know? About a quarter of the hands stayed up. Raise your hand if your security teams are using AI. Even fewer hands went up. Like, that's the scary part of all of this. If the security teams can't get on board as quickly, that gap, those that one month turns into ten years.
00:33:21 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:33:21] S1: Yeah. That's that's really well said, Dan. That that... I I I see that perfectly. If you think about the hardest trade offs that you've had to meet at Chainguard... And, ultimately, let's just state it. Chainguard is the solution to a lot of these problems, which is that you give people a chance to scale as a muscle because you're doing a lot of the security work for people. Talk a little bit about the biggest trade offs you've had to make. You've gone, again, in under five years to a 3,500,000,000 plus in growing company, securing hundreds, now 600 plus companies. What has been your biggest trade off?
00:33:58 · Dan Lorenc, Alexa von Tobel
[00:33:58] S0: It's always about focus and making sure that we're not spreading ourselves making sure that we're doing enough as as we grow and we don't miss some of these opportunities at the same time. And, you know, as we get bigger, these things take a lot longer to do. Right? It's not just shipping stuff. It's, aligning marketing and sales teams and the entire go to market around everything that we're doing. And that takes a while. And so you can't just keep pivoting every single day, you know, at this scale like you could, when you're 10 people. And so it's... You you really have to figure out where we think the world gonna be a year or eighteen months from now and make sure we're building toward that. But then, you know, constantly be adjusting that and constantly, making these changes. Because you don't feel the mistakes today anymore. You feel them two years from now. All of the stuff that, you know, going is wrong inside of the company today, we can look back and it's, yeah, we didn't do the right thing to fix that a year ago. And now to fix it, we have to wait another year to really fix things. [00:34:54] S1: If you're an individual right now, should we be thinking about our security differently? [00:34:59] S0: As an individual? [00:35:00] S1: Yeah. As an individual. Meaning, there's just more risk. Right? Like... And what you basically just said, to simplify it, is that competition wins. [00:35:10] S0: Mhmm. [00:35:10] S1: It always wins. [00:35:12] S0: Mhmm.
00:35:12 · Dan Lorenc, Alexa von Tobel
[00:35:12] S0: Mhmm. [00:35:12] S1: Every big company is hypercompetitive and needs to stay at the pace of a... Of of the effective AGI that we now have. The surface area for gaps is growing. Chainguard is helping us close it. Mhmm. But effectively, that does mean... You know, sort of my expectation is we're gonna see some really large breaches. We're gonna see some companies, probably the ones not using Chainguard, that have really seismic breaches of some kind that were unexpected. And I think we'll probably have some big CISO stories that... Where things go wrong because they're not necessarily set up to keep pace. [00:35:51] S0: Yep. [00:35:52] S1: And I'm just wondering, like, do you think about your own personal security diff... And I don't mean physical security like someone on the street. I mean, your digital security differently. Or do you have any practices that you don't do that we should all know of things that you wouldn't, you know, do on the Internet?
00:36:08 · Dan Lorenc
[00:36:08] S0: Yeah. I think there... There's one more element in there when you talk about all these breaches and the security gaps. And I... It it... It's the the fact that this is a multiplayer game, security. Right? It's it's not like, you know, you're building a bridge and you wanna make sure the bridge doesn't fall down. Right like we know how to do that. Matthew This is a multiplayer game, where there are attackers out there constantly trying new things and they're using this technology to and so. Matthew At the same time that you every CSO is dealing with their surface area getting a lot bigger they're also dealing with you know the APTs, the advanced persistent threats out there, also getting incredibly This great. Security capabilities. Yeah. The only real bottleneck in the past, everyone knows that, you know, a North Korea out there could break into any system given enough time. Right? There's no such thing as perfect security. The only real bottleneck was patience and time on their side because, you know, they they don't have infinite people willing to hack infinite systems over years. But that bottleneck is getting reduced. So, yeah, you're completely right. There are going to be breaches. And a lot of these breaches are going be at no fault of the companies they're doing everything they possibly could have done, but attackers are now 10 or a 100 times as capable to. For as an individual do all those things that you know you're supposed to do, but probably put off right actually set up two factor authentication everywhere Turn off the SMS ones on your phone, that kind of thing. But, yeah, it's it's just gonna happen, and we we have to kind of deal with it. And it's because the attackers are allowed to do this, and there are very little repercussions at a state level.