00:42:56 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:42:56] S1: My my sabbatical was like, oh, I just, opportunistically, hey. I think this vertical's right. The KPIs look good. Let's let's go and build into it. So that was, like, one thing. One funny thing is I ran a dating show for a little bit. Don't recommend that that [00:43:09] S0: business. Ran a dating show? [00:43:10] S1: Yeah. It was love or fame. The idea was that you come and you... It's... It was on a mobile phone, and you would compete for love or fame. But imagine watching twelve hours a day of dating shows if you wanna jump out of out of a window. So so that wasn't for me. And then the second thing is, like, I don't True. [00:43:27] S0: You take time off to go on the beach or not even on the beach. Yeah. I know. [00:43:30] S1: It was [00:43:30] S0: just, like, low quality work. [00:43:32] S1: Yeah. And then... Which was horrible. And then the second thing was I, like, did not truly care about the people I was working with when I started the second... The company. So I would say, like, one of the things that's kept me here at AppLovin for so long outside of, like, helping helping our customers succeed is, like, I really deeply care about the success of Adam and the rest of our team. For me, if they don't do well, it doesn't set well with me. I will die. I will run myself into the ground to make those around me succeed. And I didn't have any of those things. And so my journey back to AppLovin was we're New York Stock Exchange ringing the bell. We're all hanging out. [00:44:18] S0: And So when you go public, you're still outside of the company?
00:44:18 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:44:18] S0: And So when you go public, you're still outside of the company? [00:44:21] S1: Still outside of the company. Great shape, by the way. So yeah. So go there. We ring the bell and like first day out, stock drops. Right? And, you know, I'm talking to people there and, you know, things... They were... The company is still growing, but, like, there was definitely some flaws within the business. And it was, like, very clear to me that, like, I need to be here. Like, this is my calling. Your purpose. This is my company. And, you know, we were drinking our sorrows away. I wouldn't say partying because it wasn't like a super happy moment. You know, you... Your IPO happens and your stock immediately drops after. And Adam, you know, he looked at me and he was like, hey, I'm hearing from people you're thinking about coming. And I was like, I'm fucking in. And then I've been here ever since. I got drawn back in through the purpose of the business, and I knew there was lot more I could be doing here. Do you [00:45:16] S0: think you would have made that decision if the business was ripping in a good spot and the stock price was going up? [00:45:22] S1: I think I would've, because at that point there would've been nothing else for me to offer to the company or no value that I could deliver. I mean, if [00:45:28] S0: So you would've stayed out of it. [00:45:29] S1: I would've stayed out of it and I would've had to figure something else out. But I felt like at that point, the business needed me.
00:45:29 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:45:29] S1: I would've stayed out of it and I would've had to figure something else out. But I felt like at that point, the business needed me. [00:45:34] S0: And this is where I think you guys go public something like 28,000,000,000 market cap or something like that, and it goes down, I think, like almost like every day for like two hundred days or something like this. Yes. This is the legendary stock buyback. Yes. Which we should retell this story now because it's incredible. [00:45:46] S1: The company's crashing. It's funny. It's like it's inverse. Stock is crashing, revenue is going up. And so Adam tells a story better than anybody, but he just doubled down on buying AppLovin stock and levered up the company, and it was one of the greatest returns of all time. Right? [00:46:00] S0: Yeah. Because I think at the time, I think you went down to $3,800,000,000 market cap. Right? Something like that. Yep. But I think you guys are doing, like, a billion in cash flow or something. [00:46:08] S1: Yes. [00:46:08] S0: Right? [00:46:08] S1: Yeah. [00:46:08] S0: Yeah. And so the idea is, let's take... No one else is gonna buy our stock. Let's let's take this billion in cash flow, start buying back our stock, and then at one point, the company reaped, like, a $50,000,000,000 windfall Yes. On that decision to buy back the stock.
00:46:08 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:46:08] S0: Yeah. And so the idea is, let's take... No one else is gonna buy our stock. Let's let's take this billion in cash flow, start buying back our stock, and then at one point, the company reaped, like, a $50,000,000,000 windfall Yes. On that decision to buy back the stock. [00:46:20] S1: Yes. Yes. It was funny because at the time, we... You know, we were thinking if the stock continues dropping, we're just gonna buy the company and take it private, kind of like Michael Dell did with his own company. Right? So that was that was kind of one of the directories we were gonna go if if it didn't keep free falling because we thought it was such an incredible business and we knew we wanted to continue running it. [00:46:38] S0: Well, that was gonna be my next question to you. Like, when this is happening, you're like, okay. We went public 28. Now we're down to 3.8. You're not, like, stressed?
00:46:38 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:46:38] S0: Well, that was gonna be my next question to you. Like, when this is happening, you're like, okay. We went public 28. Now we're down to 3.8. You're not, like, stressed? [00:46:46] S1: No. Because you're talking to a guy who... My hobbies are are, like, $15 a month. You know? Like, I play, like, a game of World of Warcraft. Right? It's like a subscription. I, you know, I hang out with the same friends I did in high school or people I work with. You know, I wear clothing that's, like, a... You know, pretty cheap. I don't have, like, these extravagant tastes. Like, I I think what ends up happening with a lot of these people is that their lifestyle creeps a lot more than what they end up, you know, having. That was something that that never had happened to me. And so I was never concerned about cash flow. I knew we had a great business and and, you know, they were still growing. So I was just like, you know, let's let's double down on what we have. [00:47:28] S0: Is, like, frugality, like, a company... Like, is that something you guys talk about inside the company? Because, like, I remember talking to Adam and at the time, the stock price was amazing. On paper, he's worth, like, 20,000,000,000. Yep. And he's, like, taking JetBlue. Yeah. And then I introduced him to my friend Patrick, and he was, like, I think doing, like, investor meetings. He was, like, flying, like, Southwest or something. It was, like, a normal, like, budget airline. It's, what is this guy doing? Yeah.
00:47:28 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:47:28] S0: Is, like, frugality, like, a company... Like, is that something you guys talk about inside the company? Because, like, I remember talking to Adam and at the time, the stock price was amazing. On paper, he's worth, like, 20,000,000,000. Yep. And he's, like, taking JetBlue. Yeah. And then I introduced him to my friend Patrick, and he was, like, I think doing, like, investor meetings. He was, like, flying, like, Southwest or something. It was, like, a normal, like, budget airline. It's, what is this guy doing? Yeah. [00:47:54] S1: So I I think it's less about, like, you know, we're we're talking about frugality, but, you know, if you look at dashboards all day and the main KPI you're looking at is return on ad spend. When we think about life like that, how much return am I going to get for my investment? If I can get to the same place at the same time but one is 10x cheaper, why wouldn't I take that every time? I think that was really kind of the mindset of it. So it was less about frugality, but the return wasn't there for it. [00:48:19] S0: What is this relentless focus you guys have on the amount of employees you have in the business? [00:48:25] S1: Yeah. So the thing for us is [00:48:27] S0: Is that our same situation? We can hit this much revenue with half the... It's like a... Almost like a demonstration of like an actual skill set of an entrepreneur. It's like I can do twice as more with half of