Radical Talks
00:16:05 · Aidan Gomez
[00:16:05] S2: Yeah. I mean, what they mean is that no one can switch off their access to AI. They want unrestricted... They want control fundamentally, control over where it runs, control over who can see the data running through it. And then very importantly, they want operational continuity like in a crisis. It will not get shut off. And what they don't want is, like, the mythos scenario where you have built a bunch of stuff on top of this model, and then one day you get rug pulled, and it's gone, and your infrastructure starts breaking down. I mean, it's just like... It's very plainly and obviously unacceptable. Sovereignty isn't about, like, isolation. It's not like you have to do everything. It's not that every single country in the world is gonna build its own model. I think that's a a bit of a naive perspective given the amount of capital that is required to do that. But what it does mean is that you're going to have to diversify your supply chain. So you're not going to completely depend on any one party. You're gonna have, multiple countries, companies, etcetera, that you buy your AI from, and no one party can shut you off. That resilience through diversification is what people are are really talking about.
00:17:38 · Jordan Jacobs, Aidan Gomez
[00:17:38] S1: And talk a little bit about what that has meant for you guys, particularly since Mythos was shut off, which is... Feels like a long time ago, but it was only about three months ago, three and a half months ago. So did the world change after that? I mean, certainly it felt like there was an awareness of this issue that became ubiquitous. Whereas before, for some people, maybe it was a theory or a concern in the background. And just to describe what happened, the US government shut off access for all non Americans. And that means non American companies, non American governments, non American employees of American companies even. And as a result, you had giant organisations around the world not getting access to something they knew that their competitors did have access to. And competitors, whether you're a government or whether you're a bank or any other organisation. So... Okay. So that happens. How has the world changed for Cohere since then? [00:18:50] S2: I mean, yeah, it's like you say it was a it was a risk. It was something that was talked about and, like, by many parties sort of poo pooed. Like, they they would never, you know. Like, we're such good friends with the states. Like, they would never do this to us. That's an unthinkable reality. Come on. We're in, like, five eyes together. You know? Like, it's... We share everything. Five eyes being Five
00:18:50 · Aidan Gomez, Jordan Jacobs
[00:18:50] S2: I mean, yeah, it's like you say it was a it was a risk. It was something that was talked about and, like, by many parties sort of poo pooed. Like, they they would never, you know. Like, we're such good friends with the states. Like, they would never do this to us. That's an unthinkable reality. Come on. We're in, like, five eyes together. You know? Like, it's... We share everything. Five eyes being Five [00:19:17] S1: eyes being the intelligence sharing among Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, US. Yeah. The most tightly coordinated set of allies of The United States being the intelligence sharing Five Eyes coordination.
00:19:35 · Aidan Gomez
[00:19:35] S2: Yeah. So there's, like, just so much deep integration. Like, this could never happen. And we were, like, still trying to make the argument. We're like, well, okay. You know, you thought free trade was a thing, and it vanished overnight. And ally and foe alike, same treatment. Like, you know, there's a... The risk is like a real risk. Like, this this, like, seriously might happen and you should prepare for it. But still folks were like, yeah. Like, maybe we can do some, like, little stuff, but not taking it seriously. And then mythos hit, and then it was like, this is real. It not only could happen, it has happened, and we will plan for it to happen again. And so it was just like a a big change in the world. It was sort of like a one way door, like crossing the Rubicon. It was like, we now exist in a different world where, all these assumptions that we held true, we will never assume, they hold true forever, after. And in that, I think, you know, it's probably good for the world. Like, it was a very fragile state that we were in. We had built up this system where we had a a single point of failure. Everyone depended on only one other country to supply them all of their technology, and that's dangerous for democracy. Right? Like, you know, systems engineering one zero one. Don't build a single point of failure. And we used to not do that. Right? Like, there's multiple countries inside the g seven or, like, the democratic block that develop fighter jets, that develop missile tech, that develop energy supply systems, nuclear reactors, that have nukes, like bombs. Right? Like, we distributed this technology, across the block of democracies. But then when you look back over the digital revolution and you look at, like, consumer devices, social media, major hyperscale clouds, you know, they're all from one country. Which is a 100%. And so there's, this line when digital tech started taking off where you just see this massive concentration risk emerge. And I I really do believe that contributes to a lot of the weakening of democracy that we see in the world today and the fragility that I think we've... We all feel and see in the democratic block. So I'm I'm personally, like, a big believer in...
00:22:27 · Aidan Gomez, Jordan Jacobs
Probably one of the most important things we can do over the next decade is to ensure that multiple democracies develop the core capabilities, the core levers of economic, social, you know, national security, technology. Otherwise, we're just gonna... Like, we're not doing ourselves any favors. We're not doing The US any favors. We're not doing democracy any favors by persisting in this world where we engineer in fragility. [00:23:01] S1: And so that that kind of leads into how you've taken action. One of those ways is to combine with alpha. Talk us through the the strategic thinking behind that. You know, how... What does that mean for you now in Europe and how you're perceived by customers, whether they're regulated industries, governments, etcetera. [00:23:25] S2: Yes. So we're we're dual citizen, essentially. So we're Canadian and we're German. We're European for all intents and purposes. Like, we we fit the definition of a European company under the Bio European Act. We have a headquarters in Berlin and one in Toronto. We have board representation from Germany, from Canada. We have board meetings in Germany and Canada. So at the governance level, at the operational level, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, we are German Canadian. [00:24:05] S1: Or Canadian German. Or
00:24:07 · Aidan Gomez
[00:24:07] S2: Canadian German. I mean, obviously, I don't have a German passport, so I'm a little bit biased. But as the CEO of Cohere, I'm not. Right? Like, I'm equally committed to the success of these two nations and protecting their interests and their sovereignty, and that opens up a massive market. The European market is immense. You know, it's fractured. It's, like, disorganized and a little bit, like, chaotic, and there are plenty of critiques of the EU. But it is a incredibly powerful and large market, And you can see it starting to to unify, to act, to prioritize sovereignty. I mean, they literally have, like, a hot kinetic war on their eastern border. So they have to. Like, they... There's just... It's like marching towards them. And so they they don't have a choice at this stage. They're going to have to defend themselves. People are already trying to impose their will and encroach and harass and and attack them. And so you can see there's a there's a real need for sovereignty, and it's a real privilege, to be able to to help them with that and and to take that on. My family comes from Europe. My, you know, I'm the first one that was born in Canada. My mom's British. My dad is Spanish. Both of my families live in The UK and and in Spain. My wife's sister lives in Berlin. Like, protecting Europe is good for everyone. It's good for The States. It's good for Canada. It's good for anyone who believes in democracy and thinks that's a better way of life than, desperate regimes and, you know, authoritarianism. So I I really do think it's, like, such a crucial priority. Sorry. I forgot your question. I started rambling. No.