00:15:37 · Kamran Zaki
[00:15:37] S0: I think it's even broader than financial services, right? And I think identity is one of those interesting things where depending how you define it, identity could fit into infrastructure, right? Where identity is a big part of security companies, right? Where you're solving sort of for permissions and authentication. I think then there's identity when you get to financial services, which is those things, but you also get into sort of KYC or KYB and ongoing sort of verification or validation of your customers. So the way I look at it is there's still in this day and age, despite all the progress we've made, a lot of friction in commerce. When you're trying to buy something from a website or an app, if you need to authenticate yourself or if you're a small business on a platform commerce or before you can start selling, you need to go through all these different steps and nobody solved it perfectly. And I think to your point, one cat and mouse is between fraudsters and and legitimate users. The other, I think, of chicken and egg issue from a payments or identity standpoint is somebody has to either be willing or a government has to play this central role, right, where, you know, if I'm gonna KYC Miguel, okay. I've done it once. I now have this information. Everyone else who wants to do it is going to have to go through all the same steps. So Miguel has to go through it 10 times. Could you get a central body that is able to say, I've already done it once and I can passport it to you? And then same, let's say for whatever reason, something gets triggered annually or every three years when I need to ask you to update your social security number or your passport copy. Today, you have to do it across multiple entities, whether if you're a consumer or small business. Again, could we centralize those aspects? And I think some of that gets into, again, who is that entity? Is it going to have to be government or government? Or can a private entity take on that responsibility? Will everyone else trust them? And how do you do it in a way that's compliant with data privacy, which also varies in different parts of the world.
00:17:37 · Miguel Armaza, Kamran Zaki
[00:17:37] S1: So you think it's probably going to be country by country issue where in some countries it's going to be maybe a private sector entity being the centralizing agent and then others being at the government level? [00:17:54] S0: I think that's what you're seeing today. Right? I think you're seeing in parts of the world where the government is stepping in, India or Pakistan or parts of Eastern Europe and issuing this unique ID card, and on the back of it then saying, Hey, if you want to authenticate against that or verify against that, then you're pinging directly or through somebody, the the government or the central, repository anyway. I think in other cases like The US, you're seeing that it is private entities. Right? I use CLEAR all the time, and it's expanding to more and more places. Right? And there are a few other entities. So I think it is evolving over time. Maybe it becomes one flavor, but today it's multiple. And so there's probably still value in somebody sort of concatenating all of those. So at least if I am a global offering, you can give me access to all of those, but that's more of a gateway play. Over time, how can you add even more value to it potentially?
00:17:54 · Kamran Zaki, Miguel Armaza
[00:17:54] S0: I think that's what you're seeing today. Right? I think you're seeing in parts of the world where the government is stepping in, India or Pakistan or parts of Eastern Europe and issuing this unique ID card, and on the back of it then saying, Hey, if you want to authenticate against that or verify against that, then you're pinging directly or through somebody, the the government or the central, repository anyway. I think in other cases like The US, you're seeing that it is private entities. Right? I use CLEAR all the time, and it's expanding to more and more places. Right? And there are a few other entities. So I think it is evolving over time. Maybe it becomes one flavor, but today it's multiple. And so there's probably still value in somebody sort of concatenating all of those. So at least if I am a global offering, you can give me access to all of those, but that's more of a gateway play. Over time, how can you add even more value to it potentially? [00:18:49] S1: Yeah. We we just had our summit for Gilgamesh Ventures and and the CTO of CLEAR join us on stage. One of the main things he talked about is exactly that. It's portability of identity. Right? But, know, hey, they also have the challenge that biometrics, it could get to a point where current standard is easily hacked with a deepfake or something. So, you know, they are also being challenged.
00:18:49 · Miguel Armaza, Kamran Zaki
[00:18:49] S1: Yeah. We we just had our summit for Gilgamesh Ventures and and the CTO of CLEAR join us on stage. One of the main things he talked about is exactly that. It's portability of identity. Right? But, know, hey, they also have the challenge that biometrics, it could get to a point where current standard is easily hacked with a deepfake or something. So, you know, they are also being challenged. [00:19:19] S0: And look, think back to your point, with modern technology and any new technology, this is always the case, right? AI is a great example where I think there are a lot of potential benefits, but there's also this challenge that fraudsters will use AI to hack your or my likeness and voice and other aspect. It is definitely a constant challenge. [00:19:40] S1: Speaking of AI, Kamran, are there other than identity, are are there are there areas in financial services where you're really starting to see the potential of AI?
00:19:54 · Kamran Zaki
[00:19:54] S0: I think it's definitely early days. I think everyone is experimenting and testing things. I think financial services has always been at the forefront of using whatever term. Think historically we used to call it big data. Right? Then it became machine learning and now it's probably AI. I think a lot of what financial services has historically done is predictive analysis. Right? We've we've historically taken historic data and said, how can I use it to help me with risk and fraud or other things? But if you fast forward, I think in theory, we should be able to use AI to make better decisions and create more personalized experiences for consumers. Right? So everything from credit risk and underwriting to risk and fraud to compliance, but also recommendations. Right? So I don't know if we take wealth management as an example, we should be able to use AI to offer you a very curated recommendation or set of recommendations that today either you have to be a sophisticated investor yourself or or you need a human being to help you. And it's not necessarily replacing that human, but it's just making them even more productive, right, in customizing this for you. And or some people will say it's sort of gonna go down this agentic path where it will replace that person. So... But I think it's definitely still fairly early days, but obviously a ton of investment and and testing going on as you talk to folks in in the industry.
00:21:19 · Miguel Armaza, Kamran Zaki
[00:21:19] S1: So before we started recording, was I was telling you, Kamran, that I'm starting to see a bit of a shift. Smells a little bit differently in the air. Much more positive for Fintech at least at the mainstream level. Looks like we're getting a few IPOs. Q1 of next year Klarna, Chime. I'm sure there's more. I've heard that from very senior investment bankers that there's about 100 to 200 tech companies that have filed confidentially. This is not just Fintech but tech. And they can keep extending the filing, but they're trying to be ready for when the market is actually open. What do you envision for Fintech in the coming months, specifically 2025 where it's around the core? [00:22:09] S0: Yeah. I think as you and I discussed, we're we're both Fintech geeks and pretty deeply versed, so so we may be biased. [00:22:15] S1: But that being said,