01:36:38 · Josh Zoffer
[01:36:38] S7: have to be, in the 50 states, for sure. I think there's definitely room to collaborate with allies both in where the physical data centers are located as well as, in the supply chain. So we're not gonna make every single thing that goes in every single data center, in The United States. But but I would say maybe two things that concern me. One is, you know, it came out a couple of weeks ago that the Chinese government is reportedly planning a $295,000,000,000 fund for data center construction. So the Chinese government, unsurprisingly, because they run this play before, they get it. Right? They understand how important all of these technologies and supply chains are. The second is today. There are lots of important pieces of the data center supply chain from the GPU manufacturing at places like TSMC to the ASML EUV lithography machines that really can only be made in, you know, Western allies, like Taiwan and The Netherlands. I think if the history of industrial development tells us anything, it's that we can't rely on that being true forever. And so, you know, taking action today to make sure that, you know, while there's a chance to take advantage of this capacity, and this demand to build next generation technology, industrial capacity in The United States when these technologies aren't commoditized and can't be bought more cheaply from a place like China is kind of you know, it's it's an important window of opportunity. And if we miss that opportunity, again, I think there there's a a world where we really regret it. You know, that doesn't mean just we should build all the data centers. We should have no no restrictions, no regulations. I think that would be a big mistake, and I think that is a way to politically get wrong you know, wrong footed and and generate a lot of opposition, which is why it's important that, you know, some of these energy costs be moved onto onto developers, as well as, you know, things like environmental restrictions being put in place to make sure that we do this the right way. I think it's important that, you know, that to me, the lesson of the rare earth example is you've gotta balance these things. Right? It can't be all of one or all of the other.
01:38:30 · John Coogan, Josh Zoffer, Jordi Hays
[01:38:30] S0: Last question. You, you wrote this in the Financial Times. It clearly will land with a geopolitically minded audience. But while I agree with a lot of what you said, I can't imagine it translating very well to everyday American voters who see AI as very deeply unpopular. How are you thinking about the the jumps and the translation layer that needs to happen to actually get, you know, American voters on board with this plan? [01:39:02] S7: Yeah. I mean, look. To me, first of all, completely agree. I think there there is a real opposition to data centers in in part because, you know, yes, they're they're big and they can be kinda ugly. But the reality is I my view is a lot of that has to do with the fact that they are the physical representation of Yes. Of AI. Right? Yeah. Yeah. [01:39:19] S0: If you look at the Instagram comments, like, you can very clearly tell that the vast majority of people that are, like, commenting on, like, data center bad content have never seen a data center. Like, they're nowhere near one. They might live in a major city that they don't even see them. But [01:39:34] S1: Yeah. You could see data centers putting up signs that say no AI served here. [01:39:37] S0: Yeah. But they don't like the idea of they're losing a job or losing out financially or watching companies get even bigger than they already are, all of that. So, yes, it's a referendum. But then how do you bridge that gap?
01:39:50 · Josh Zoffer
[01:39:50] S7: Yeah. I I think it's really, a few things. One is when a data center is built, right, making sure that, you know, if we have policies in place that, you know, push data center developers to build their own clean generation and ultimately connect it to the grid, that having a data center could mean your energy costs go down. Right? So that's point one is make the localized costs go away, and that's something that's that's very achievable. Yep. Point two would be, you know, I think when we talk about, what the effects of AI on the labor market are going be, I think taking a more reasoned view than just saying, oh, it's going to wipe out 50% of all white collar jobs by some date that's not that far in the future. I think the evidence is pretty and the jury is still out, and we have a lot of chances to use public policy tools to make sure that that's not the case and to tell a sort of a more balanced story and ensure that the American people know that it is not going to be job apocalypse and that it's going to be the kind of transition that other large technology transitions have been where, over time, the composition of the labor force changes, but ultimately, it's a source of growth and a source of new job creation. And then the last one, and this is really the point I'm trying to get across in this article, is there are lots of parts of a data center from the steel to the transformers that need to be made somewhere in a factory, and somebody's gonna be working in those factories. And there is a real opportunity to make sure that those jobs are American jobs. And that's something that I would also, you know, be in favor of using public policy to encourage, not just because, you know, those jobs themselves are valuable, but also because the industrial capacity they represent
01:41:25 · Alex Hormozi, Josh Zoffer, John Coogan, Jordi Hays, John McElhone
[01:41:25] S3: Yeah. [01:41:25] S7: Is valuable and for all the reasons that we all know that the industrialization is important. [01:41:29] S0: Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, while the data center doesn't have that many people working inside of it, the supply chain is very deep and complex. So that makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. [01:41:40] S1: Yeah. Great to have you on, Josh. [01:41:41] S0: Have a great rest of your week. [01:41:42] S7: Thanks for having me, guys. [01:41:42] S0: Enjoy the We'll talk to you soon. Let me tell you about Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents. Our next guest is John McElhone. Did I say that correctly? From American Turbines? You're close. McElhone. McElhone. To the show. How are you doing? First time on the show. Please introduce yourself and the company. [01:42:08] S5: My name is John McElhone. My company is called American Turbines. We build small turbines for rapid deploy energy generation. [01:42:17] S0: Okay. How small are we talking? How can I think about this? Help me help me place it in the in the world. How much energy is it generating? [01:42:25] S5: Yeah. So you could probably fit one in the back of your pickup truck. Few of them actually. [01:42:29] S1: I like that. [01:42:31] S3: Ours are
01:42:31 · Alex Hormozi, John McElhone, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[01:42:31] S3: Ours are [01:42:31] S5: about one megawatt in size, our first units. Yeah. And so you can think about a megawatt could probably power about just over a thousand homes Yeah. In the back of a pickup truck. So they're they're tiny, but, you know, they they they pack a big punch. They're they're quite power dense. [01:42:44] S0: Yeah. And then talk about the the the supply chain and the actual energy source. These run natural gas. What are the inputs to actually getting energy? [01:42:54] S5: Just natural gas. Okay. That's how we call American turbines because United States is very uniquely advantaged compared to the rest of the world. Best place in the world to use natural gas. We have such an amazing supply of it. Extremely cheap, and and we have a lot of resource that we haven't tapped yet. So this company just works well in The States. You know, it wouldn't work in Europe. It wouldn't work in Russia or China. It just works here. [01:43:17] S0: Yeah. So what does the team look like? What does the manufacturing look like? Are these, like, handmade at this point? I mean, it's a young company. Take us through a little bit of the history. I mean [01:43:25] S1: Handmade American turbine. [01:43:28] S0: I mean, I imagine that it's not fully lights out robotic factory yet, but maybe that's the vision in a few years. But where are you today? Yeah.
01:43:28 · John Coogan, John McElhone
[01:43:28] S0: I mean, I imagine that it's not fully lights out robotic factory yet, but maybe that's the vision in a few years. But where are you today? Yeah. [01:43:36] S5: We're pretty small. We're a small team. There's there's a few of us on board right now. We are hiring, so check out our website if you wanna roll. And but, yeah, we're right now, it's just handmade, but that the the goal here is really being able to make something you can mass manufacture. Like that's, that's the end goal. Everybody is more so worried about time to power. How quick can you get some energy generation in the grind? And the only way to really achieve that is figuring out automation at scale and how to make a product at scale. That's kind of where we've failed at turbines over the years as we've they're all kind of derived from aircraft and you have to kind of be stringent to the standards of the FAA and it has to be able to travel at 600 miles an hour. Sure. Sort of work background from back from these systems and understand how do we make this on the grind. Mhmm. But what we're trying to work out is, like, the opposite way. Like, just make it for the grind. Make something very simple. It doesn't have to be efficient. Doesn't have to last forever. You don't have to run this at 600 miles an hour, 30,000 feet in the air. And the problem that you're really solving is is really just energy generation at scale. [01:44:32] S0: Can you sorry, Jordy. Please.