00:18:47 · Erin Griffith, Max Read, Rob Copeland
[00:18:47] S3: I think the I think the way... The the thing that that it would hinge on is if she gets a pardon, because then that's just an easy way to tell that story to investors and for them to tell it to their LPs. [00:19:00] S1: I mean, one thing it's... I'm glad you brought that up because one theme of the movie and one thing that... Consistency and the thing you're talking about is there's a political edge to this. And part of the journey we see Billy take over the course of the film is from this kind of overprotective, but, I mean, let's be honest, controlling sort of supportive partner to this, you know, jaw grinding, gun toting reactionary who's defending Charlie Kirk over the dinner table. And it seems... You know, I I I wanna note too that, Jessica Reed Kraus who runs a blog called House and Habit, which is sort of... I'm not quite sure how to put it other than to say it's kind of a MAGA gossip blog, has declared Elizabeth Holmes, the original maha. So there is... I think there are these sort of vague efforts to kind of grab onto Holmes, you know, aided by Billy as a kind of Trumpian figure, as a figure for the tech. Right? So maybe if anybody's gonna do it, it would be Andreessen Horowitz. But I I think I agree with you that there needs to be some kind of pardon or mechanism that they can tell the story. [00:20:02] S2: A MAGA gossip blog is what Erin calls me on Slack when she's angry. Speaking
00:20:02 · Rob Copeland, Max Read, Erin Griffith
[00:20:02] S2: A MAGA gossip blog is what Erin calls me on Slack when she's angry. Speaking [00:20:10] S1: of the, the Charlie Kirk scene, one of the sort of big actual real world revelations in the movie, maybe big is overstating it, but it certainly feels big in the movie, is that Elizabeth Holmes' Twitter account, which has been active over the last period of time that she's been in prison and has gotten strangely combative and conservative, is being run by Billy. And Billy is sort of claiming that she... Either that she's sending him the specific words or that, he's just... He's tweeting on her behalf. You... I imagine, Rob, you had no idea that that this was happening while while you were interviewing him. [00:20:45] S2: I had no idea, and it would have been so off the wall, truly. [00:20:49] S1: So there's one tweet in particular that, it doesn't quite play a role in the movie, but it it bears... It's... It bears on something that happens in the movie. I'm gonna read this and then some other tweets, and I want you guys to tell me whether you think those are tweets from Elizabeth Holmes or from Billy Evans. So the first tweet, Charlie Kirk talked profoundly about forgiveness, its power. I keep thinking about that today and what it means to rise in the face of the unforgivable. Is that Elizabeth Holmes or Billy Evans? [00:21:16] S3: That sounds like her. I mean, it's like pretty obvious, especially having watched the movie, which tweets are coming from Holmes and which ones are coming from Billy. [00:21:24] S1: Okay. I'm gonna read
00:21:24 · Max Read, Erin Griffith, Rob Copeland
[00:21:24] S1: Okay. I'm gonna read [00:21:24] S3: There's like one that's like very online brain, and and then the other is kind of like this fortune cookie, like, you know, inspirational stuff. [00:21:32] S1: Okay. Here's one. She posts a photo of Daenerys from Game of Thrones. Daenerys is the dragon princess who emerges from flames having birthed dragons to retake her throne, and she says, they can bruise and bloody me, but still I rise. Is that Elizabeth or Billy? [00:21:48] S3: I mean, given that she didn't even know about Abbott and Costello, I feel like she probably hasn't seen Game of Thrones, maybe, but feels like Billy. [00:21:56] S1: That's a Billy one. Okay. One about, Zohran Mamdani. What are the odds that Zohran... [00:22:02] S3: I'm just gonna... Billy. [00:22:03] S2: Tony, okay. We're planning to read this. Is she... She's... Oh, this councilman that she really liked. [00:22:12] S1: Okay. Here's one. It's a question. Ever feel like a book was written for you, question mark? And it is an... I'm pretty sure AI generated image of a hardcover book, the title of which is How to Fit into Society When You're an Alien from an Alternate Universe. [00:22:28] S3: I mean, this speaks to the narrative that I was talking about that Billy's trying to put out there about her, about, like, how she's just so strange and unknowable and weird. So in a way, it kinda feels like him. And also, we know at least that she did not AI generate Yeah. From prison.
00:22:28 · Erin Griffith, Max Read, Rob Copeland
[00:22:28] S3: I mean, this speaks to the narrative that I was talking about that Billy's trying to put out there about her, about, like, how she's just so strange and unknowable and weird. So in a way, it kinda feels like him. And also, we know at least that she did not AI generate Yeah. From prison. [00:22:44] S1: Okay. I'm gonna do one more. Thank you for playing along with this game. It just says, never forget who you are. [00:22:53] S3: That sounds like her. [00:22:55] S2: Oh, I was gonna say Billy. I [00:22:57] S1: do wonder [00:22:58] S3: I mean, if you... It depends on if you see it with menace [00:23:00] S2: or with, like, info. Right? [00:23:02] S1: I do sort of wonder a little bit. I don't wanna speculate too much about this, but there is a kind of suggestion in the way they talk about her and Billy's closeness with her even in prison that she has a phone somewhere in jail. [00:23:15] S2: So I can... I've actually done some reporting on this with... I don't know if you ever heard of this young man, Martin Screlly, who is in in prison. And I did a bit of reporting around SBF too. Everyone has a phone in prison. [00:23:28] S1: Yeah. [00:23:28] S2: It's it's it's the biggest unspoken secret that the guards love when you have phones because then they don't have to worry. I mean, well, the safest thing you could do is just be watching stupid TikTok all day.
00:23:28 · Rob Copeland, Max Read, S0
[00:23:28] S2: It's it's it's the biggest unspoken secret that the guards love when you have phones because then they don't have to worry. I mean, well, the safest thing you could do is just be watching stupid TikTok all day. [00:23:39] S1: Wow. That's that's a really powerful thought for all of us to have when we scroll tonight, that the guards are happy when we're not doing anything interesting. Guys, thank you for coming and talking about Billy Evans, Elizabeth Holmes, and You Can See Everything With Me. We're gonna take a break. When we come back, I wanna talk about news and the things you guys are tracking right now. And then after that, John Carreyrou is back to answer reader questions about, the movie. [00:24:10] S0: Compute scales in an instant. Storage scales in an instant. So why does the network underneath them still get ordered months ahead? Sized for a peak that may never come? With Lumen Intelligent Internet, businesses can add network capacity in minutes when demand shows up and dial it back when things quiet down. No guessing months ahead, just room to grow across more than 10,000,000 US business locations. Finally, a network that moves as fast as your ambition. Visit lumen.com/ambitionready. Lumen, the trusted network for AI.
00:24:10 · S0, S4, S5
[00:24:10] S0: Compute scales in an instant. Storage scales in an instant. So why does the network underneath them still get ordered months ahead? Sized for a peak that may never come? With Lumen Intelligent Internet, businesses can add network capacity in minutes when demand shows up and dial it back when things quiet down. No guessing months ahead, just room to grow across more than 10,000,000 US business locations. Finally, a network that moves as fast as your ambition. Visit lumen.com/ambitionready. Lumen, the trusted network for AI. [00:24:43] S4: AI spend is growing fast, but most businesses still can't see exactly where that money is going. Ramp gives businesses visibility and control across AI providers with real time guardrails by team and model, helping ensure spend goes to the highest ROI areas. Stop guessing where your AI spend is going. Get started with Ramp. And if you're new to Ramp, you can get $250 off at ramp.com/hardfork. Go to ramp.com/hardfork. Ramp.com/hardfork. [00:25:15] S5: It's time to innovate at the speed of AI without compromising control. That's OutSystems. Take a look at what happened with one global retailer during a period of massive expansion. They used OutSystems to build AI agents to automate invoicing and translation processes, shifting 95 of their daily store operations to a new digital app, saving thousands of hours of manual work. OutSystems gives you the flexibility to deploy how you want and the governance to do it safely. Own your agentic future. Learn more at outsystems.com/nyt. That's outsystems.com/nyt.