Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:24:16 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:24:16] S0: I'll give the URL for She Builds. I pulled it up while you're talking. Shebuilds.lovable.app. [01:24:22] S1: And We bytecoded on Lovable. They're a minimum viable product. [01:24:27] S0: Minimal lovable product. [01:24:28] S1: Minimal lovable [01:24:29] S0: There it is. So when is this happening? Is this December fifteenth, eighteenth? So [01:24:33] S1: it's Yeah. We have it. We're running it constantly. So our next cohort starts December 15, but we're gonna have more. We're planning a massive one on International Women's Day. So that's the one that if you can come join us. [01:24:48] S0: Awesome. I don't know if you... Okay. So some glimmer of hope. I don't know if you saw this tweet where I tagged you the other day or maybe it was this today. I was looking at my most recent podcast video performance, and the top four are all women, and they're all AI oriented. And they're above Stewart Butterfield, founder of Slack, above Gamma's CEO Grant. So maybe a glimmer of hope. [01:25:10] S1: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's lots of glimmers of hope. I think we can just all lean in and make sure that nobody's left behind in this wave. And that's not to stop people that are marching ahead. This is just to open up opportunities for everybody around us. [01:25:24] S0: Awesome. And we'll link to that post if people wanna get a deeper perspective of what you're saying. Elena, is there anything else that you wanted to share? Is there anything else you wanna remind people of before we get to our one question lightning round?
01:25:38 · Elena Verna
[01:25:38] S1: I guess the only other thing that I will share is for AI companies when it comes to hiring. It's really interesting also the kind of the shift in the type of personas that end up being hired that I see for me at least it's quite different compared to anywhere that I've worked before. And that is there's this narrative going in the market always that like new hires, sorry, new grads have no jobs in the market left because all of the entry level jobs are automated. I actually think that's quite false because new grads, especially AI native new grads. So it's very important for kids that are entering into the, I shouldn't say kids, young adults that are entering into the workforce that they really know AI, which is there's another like really big issue that our schools are not teaching AI students. So this is like something else that we need to fix as a category because otherwise we're literally setting up our young for a complete failure. But I think it's incredible to see some of those new graduates come in and what they're capable of doing. I have we have multiple new graduates at Lovable that are working and I learned so much from them. And you need to obviously have the right atmosphere where people with experience like old guard like me that can look at the new guard and take really hear them and see them and really change the way that I operate based on how they do things. So make sure that you bring some of that fresh talent that doesn't understand any of the baggage that we came from and that can really look at the future in technology and what can unlock from a completely new lens. So, highly recommend putting those into your team as little fireballs that are going to be sometimes hard to contain. We can start the best initiatives for you forward. And then it's also interesting that there's really high demand for ex founders now, for those people that truly have a lot of agency and high autonomy. So instead of just having people that have been working in the corporate world, the failed startup founders are now hot demand for a lot of these AI companies. So like these personas that we traditionally would not prioritize in companies to to hire are now becoming the hottest commodity and the highest going talent, which is I think is fascinating and it's like the wonderful thing that is changing the how the culture inside operates.
01:28:08 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:28:08] S0: That is really interesting and really empowering. This idea that if you need grad, there's hope. Not gonna be out of Absolutely. Absolutely. And you may have an advantage. Yeah. [01:28:17] S1: You have to lead with that. That's the thing. Like, you have to lead with the things that you can... You are capable of achieving, knowing what you have with AI, because that is a lot of people, especially in traditional tech or in more traditional companies, they're looking for somebody to show them. Because it's really hard to figure it out on your own versus coming in and seeing and then copying. [01:28:37] S0: Well, Elena, with that, we reached our very exciting lightning round. Because it's your fourth time, I'm not gonna ask you all the questions I always ask you. So I'm just gonna ask you one question. So Lovable is based on Stockholm, Sweden. I'm curious just like, what do you... What's something you love about Stockholm that you weren't expecting? Is there like a food, a restaurant? I don't know. Something. [01:28:55] S1: Well, you always have to say Swedish meatballs. I mean, I've never liked meatballs before. So, like... And now it's it's so good here. It's so good. So, like, every time one of my meals here throughout the day involves it. But I actually really love the... Yeah. [01:29:12] S0: They got some. [01:29:12] S1: They're like... They're they're... I don't know. They're so... They just taste different. Never... [01:29:16] S0: It's not like the IKEA. It's not like the IKEA Swedish meatballs.
01:29:16 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:29:16] S0: It's not like the IKEA. It's not like the IKEA Swedish meatballs. [01:29:19] S1: Well, I have been to IKEA here because that is a Swedish company too. It, like, reminded me of in person Amazon. It was, like, absolutely incredible. IKEA here is, like, next level. But food food... I Swedish meatballs for sure. Honestly, how clean the city is? Like, it's it's kind of incredible. The architecture, like, everything is so built out. It's like picture perfect. Like, it's on the card. I don't know. It's it's different compared to, like, most of the large cities that I've been at that a little bit more worn down. [01:29:49] S0: So fun. Make me wanna visit and get some meatballs. [01:29:52] S1: Yeah. Just visit during the do visit during the summer. Otherwise, the daylight here is really is really tight during the winter. [01:29:58] S0: Okay. Good tip. Okay. Two final questions. Where can folks find you online if they wanna reach out, maybe learn more? And how can listeners be useful to you?
01:29:58 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:29:58] S0: Okay. Good tip. Okay. Two final questions. Where can folks find you online if they wanna reach out, maybe learn more? And how can listeners be useful to you? [01:30:06] S1: Yes. Please find me online on LinkedIn. Please feel free to follow me. Always engage on my post if you want to engage with me because that's the place that I always talk to people. I have my newsletter as well that I'm baby steps compared to what Lenny has, but it's alenaverna.com. I also try to... That's where I post most of my findings experienced at my work. So if you want to continue seeing how my thinking evolves or what are the patterns that I noticed, that's where to find me. And how to be useful to me, really pressure test my thinking because so many things are changing right now. I'm honestly not even sure myself of what is a pattern versus what is just a data point. So I'd love to just engage in as many conversations as possible and hear your opinions because that will help us as an industry just understand what is actually happening and makes more sense out of this whole thing.
01:30:06 · Elena Verna, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:30:06] S1: Yes. Please find me online on LinkedIn. Please feel free to follow me. Always engage on my post if you want to engage with me because that's the place that I always talk to people. I have my newsletter as well that I'm baby steps compared to what Lenny has, but it's alenaverna.com. I also try to... That's where I post most of my findings experienced at my work. So if you want to continue seeing how my thinking evolves or what are the patterns that I noticed, that's where to find me. And how to be useful to me, really pressure test my thinking because so many things are changing right now. I'm honestly not even sure myself of what is a pattern versus what is just a data point. So I'd love to just engage in as many conversations as possible and hear your opinions because that will help us as an industry just understand what is actually happening and makes more sense out of this whole thing. [01:30:59] S0: I'm just gonna double click on your newsletter. Definitely subscribe to it. It's incredibly good. Everything we talked about here, Elena has written about in her newsletter in large part and goes even deeper. It's just elenaverna.com. If you're like reading this on your podcast app or YouTube, can just look at her name and just type in .com and you'll find it and subscribe and you'll be really happy. Elena, thank you so much for being here. This was amazing. Everything I wanted to be. Thank you for sharing. I know you have a of work to do, so I appreciate you making time for this and for joining us.