Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Head of Growth (Anthropic): “Claude is growing itself at this point” | Amol Avasare

00:05:31 · Lenny Rachitsky, Amol Avasare

[00:05:31] S0: I did not know the story. That is another absurd fact. Clearly you're good at cold email. What did you do in this cold email to get his attention? [00:05:40] S1: I would say I've basically perfected cold email over the years. So when I was a founder, I had to get really, really good at this. So I sent a lot of cold emails out and just honed the subject line, the message, and the tone. And so basically in the subject line, the first thing is from a conversion standpoint, someone sees the email, they need to click on it. And so I have a copy that I've tested that is very, very high open rate. And so- [00:06:10] S0: Wait, what is this copy? Or is this a secret? [00:06:12] S1: It's a secret. I think [inaudible 00:06:12]. [00:06:11] S0: Okay. We'll keep it a secret.

00:06:11 · Lenny Rachitsky, Amol Avasare

[00:06:11] S0: Okay. We'll keep it a secret. [00:06:12] S1: It's a secret. So that's one, getting them to open. I think the second is then the tactics of you need to understand where are people getting outreach. And if everyone's getting outreach in one area and then you reach out to them there, then you're not going to get as high of a response rate. So you can think about LinkedIn, you can think about work email. These are things that everyone is emailing. So there's ways to get people's personal emails out there. And so that's one thing that I did. And so okay, I've got this personal email, I know the copy that works, and then it's just keeping it very short on here's who I am, here's why I'd be a good fit, and we should chat. And these things typically don't work. And then you should always follow up a few times. I think my role of thumb is like, if I really care about it, I should just keep reaching out to them until they tell me, "Please stop." And so I would've kept doing that, but he responded the first time. [00:07:03] S0: It makes sense that a talented growth person would be very good at cold email and getting people's attention. So that's almost like an interview step is just, did I want to read this email?

00:08:36 · Amol Avasare

[00:08:36] S1: Yeah, I'd say it's very much a company-wide effort. So yes, we are the growth team. We have done great. I think we've driven a lot of impact. But honestly, man, we can't claim too much credit for the success of the company. We as Anthropic are really a model company and an intelligence company first and foremost. And so the lion's share of what has driven our success is our research team. We have, I think, the best research team in the world. We have great teams on inference and compute, and then there's many other teams like Claude Code, go to-market, et cetera, who I think deserve much more credit than us. I think just zooming out, going to some of what you said earlier, that the growth trajectory's just been insane. That 10X year-on-year revenue growth trend has been there since the beginning. I think 2023 was 0 to 100 mil, 2024 was 100 to 1, last year was 1 to roughly 10. And I look back to when I joined in 2024, revenue was in the hundreds of millions and just that trajectory through the end of 2024 and 2025, week two of when I joined, we're going into 2025 revenue planning and we have these base case and aggressive case scenarios and Dario's pushing the aggressive case scenario and people are freaking out being like, "How the hell are we going to hit that?" And Dario's like, "I think we can actually go much higher than that." And I'm coming in, this place is crazy, there's absolutely no way. And that happened. And then you get to the end of 2025 and it's like, okay, law of large numbers, there's going to be a pretty big slowdown here based on your baseline rate of 10 billion, how are you going to keep growing at this rate? And it just has not slowed down. And those numbers are public. The 19 billion number you quoted is from the end of Feb, so that is also out of date. And look, it's absolutely insane. The funniest thing is something that I've noticed internally is linear charts are just not cool. No one cares about linear charts. Everything is log linear. You have to show me at log linear scale, and that's a scale we think. And I think overall, we're just really hanging on by the seat of our pants. So we're trying to manage the growth and do the best that we can for our users.

Anthropic

00:10:46 · Lenny Rachitsky

[00:10:46] S0: I was talking to somebody at Anthropic about you, and they said that basically anytime they want something to grow, they ask you to help and it works. So you talked about just things are magical and amazing and Claude and all the tools you all built are amazing innately, and that's a big part of the reason they grow. I think many people listening to this will be like, "What do you even do, Amol, with a magical microgod that just can do anything for you? Why do we need a growth person? What do you even do?" Talk about just the stuff that you focus on and maybe a couple of the wins that your team has shipped that has helped accelerate growth.

Anthropic Claude

00:11:21 · Amol Avasare

[00:11:21] S1: I would say they're not fully wrong. We're very, very lucky to have the best models in the world. We're very lucky to have products like Claude Code and Cowork. It certainly makes life a lot easier. Having said that, I would say this is the hardest job I've had in my life, and that's having been a founder, having been an investment banker and other things like that, it's tough. And if I look at what do we do as a growth team here, I think ultimately it's the same categories of things that you would think about at a normal company. So we care about acquisition, how are we getting more people in the door, the intent of the people coming through the door. We care about activation, the signup flow, funneling people to the right products, making them successful. We care about things like monetization, free-to-paid conversion, pricing and packaging, all of that stuff that the categories of work is the same. I think then probably the big differences is I would say that roughly 70% of what I spend my time on is what we internally refer to as success disasters. And that is where things have gone so well that other things are breaking now. And I think anyone who's worked at companies that have gone through rapid growth, you think like Facebook, or Uber, or DoorDash early on, they understand this viscerally where scaling this much just brings a lot of challenges. So if you think about each of those categories on acquisition, on activation, on monetization, there's just a ton of firefighting jumping from one urgent thing to another. And it's often extremely painful. And it's funny because you look at all the charts, all the charts are green, fully up onto the right, and everyone's just like, it can be quite tough emotionally still. And so you need to step back and just realize we're very lucky to have these problems. But that's 70% of my time, I'd say, is just these firefighting of success disasters. And I think the 30% remaining is just much more standard bread and butter growth work where it's more proactive. So you think about, okay, if we have limited resources, we have many different products, which of the products do we want to put some juice behind? What does our long-term pricing and packaging look like, especially given that the technology's changing a lot and behavior and engagement trends are shifting.