Our Future Podcast
00:20:12 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:20:12] S0: For sure. A partner doesn't wanna hear you got it from Rogo or from Shagibi [00:20:15] S1: team. Exactly. [00:20:16] S0: Right? They don't they don't function like that. They want, like, hard stats. They want credibility. You know, they're presenting multimillion dollar, sometimes billion dollar deals. [00:20:22] S1: High stakes. [00:20:23] S0: I think another cool part of this is the industry they're targeting, right? Sure. So many people are trying to build a ChatGPT for X, right? You know, it's just like the Uber analogy, Uber for X. But when you think about doing an analogous business like that, it's best to do it in a very, very profitable category. And what more profitable category than finance? It's really interesting. You know, this is a topic that we love to speak about, but young people learning the power of pricing their products and gaining the confidence to do so. Yeah. You know, they didn't even know what to kind of price this at, but they're like... They were talking with someone and he's like, yeah, just add a few zeros to that. Right? Because people in finance won't even take you seriously if you're not pitching a very expensive product. So it's just a cool part of that industry for a startup to be in if they can kind of break in and get a sale.
00:21:09 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:21:09] S1: It's the truest kind of reflection of the statement quality is reflected in price. For some reason, while it's not necessarily true, right? If you come in with a $2,000 offer, that's a lot of money for your typical software company when it comes to intelligence of any kind. But to a bank, they will laugh you out the door. And it's so funny too, because like, I feel like finance is inherently cutthroat. And so when we were asking Gabe and we were like, What was your experience like trying to sell to the banks? Right? And he was just very honest with us. He was like, I go to these banks and I was telling them about AI. At that point, like AI just wasn't as prevalent, right? Like, sure, people knew of it, but like they weren't thinking about how they could imply it and embed it in their work flows. And so they would laugh them out the door. They're like, get the hell out of here with this AI nonsense. And those same people came back to him and was like, hey, guys, I know I laughed you guys. Think it worked. But listen, we might be interested in your solution here. [00:22:08] S0: I changed my mind. [00:22:09] S1: Yeah. You did change your mind. Now, how many millions do I need to pay for your services? You know what I mean? They were kind [00:22:15] S0: of needed an AI strategy.
00:22:15 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:22:15] S0: of needed an AI strategy. [00:22:16] S1: Yeah. And they just said they like spitballed a number. And it was like one of those things where you just keep going up and up and up until you hear no. And they're like, sounds about right. And I was like, what a great answer to hear when you just like spitball a number. And on the other side, this very tenured banker who just is in charge of all this spend is like, yeah, you know, I totally hear you. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah. It's very hard, [00:22:41] S0: I think, for young entrepreneurs to price their product, though. There's a lot of, like, impostor syndrome that comes with building a product that's, you know, not fully ready, hasn't been in market yet. And there's a chicken and the egg problem, or I'm not sure that's the best way to describe it, but it's hard to, you know, sell someone something without experience in doing so. But then you also don't want to discount the work you're doing because it's taking away valuable resources from someone who might pay. So it's a tricky road, right? [00:23:07] S1: I think pricing is inherently tricky. Yes, I agree. Though that said, like the comps exist, right? Like you can see what Bloomberg is charging to get at least a rough idea on what ballpark you should be in, right? Like Bloomberg is notorious for being super Yeah. [00:23:24] S0: Jamie Dimon's like, we got to cut this shit. And that's Jamie Dimon talking.
00:23:24 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:23:24] S0: Jamie Dimon's like, we got to cut this shit. And that's Jamie Dimon talking. [00:23:29] S1: Yeah, that is Jamie Dimon talking. Now that said, I think what's really interesting here is maybe some of the analogies that we could draw to like a CB Insights or a Tegus, right? So all of those platforms are also involved in kind of curating together these investor reports, scraping this data. Now, one thing that makes those platforms so interesting is that they have these like proprietary interviews that they do with professionals or industry executives, right? So that's kind of their advantage on top of the public data scraping that they do. And so, you know, I was really interested in that because I asked him, was like, So are you just trying to replace Tegus and like take this one step further? And he's like, Well, that's just kind of hard to do. [00:24:13] S0: Because we don't have the data. [00:24:14] S1: We don't Well, he didn't They don't have the interviews, right? So that they don't have those coveted, like the interviews that they have with these people. And it just made me think, Wow, like you're telling me like an hour or two hour You're long [00:24:27] S0: telling me everything is a content company? [00:24:29] S1: Yeah, yeah. No kidding. But isn't that crazy to you? Like you're telling me the ability like someone taking the time or having the access to go interview like, I don't know, the CEO of Eli Lilly or whatever that looks like and putting it into a report is worth like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. Like, that's crazy to me.
00:24:29 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:24:29] S1: Yeah, yeah. No kidding. But isn't that crazy to you? Like you're telling me the ability like someone taking the time or having the access to go interview like, I don't know, the CEO of Eli Lilly or whatever that looks like and putting it into a report is worth like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. Like, that's crazy to me. [00:24:48] S0: I know. When we were interviewing those people, we should have been, you know, creating a data set out of those conversations. [00:24:53] S1: It's still very, very doable. Maybe we just like, it's all an access play at the end of the day. Dude, seems [00:24:58] S0: like the highest leverage play in media, honestly, to get these interviews and then paywall them in some way. [00:25:03] S1: 100%. It's crazy. So maybe they'll go in that direction at some point, too. [00:25:08] S0: Yes. But I think it brings up another point in that I think a challenge for Rogo is going to be relying like specifically on lots of data streams that these companies are already paying for, integrating with them and not having their own proprietary data. [00:25:21] S1: Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe this will become their proprietary data. It's like right now they're using trusted reports and resources that everyone is accustomed to, but maybe they'll kind of start sprinkling in their own stuff. And it's like original data or reports curated by maybe boots on the ground that they have, right? [00:25:38] S0: But that's hard to pull off and execute. [00:25:40] S1: Well, about like Bloomberg... Because every
00:25:40 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:25:40] S1: Well, about like Bloomberg... Because every [00:25:41] S0: all of these data players are building an AI feature. Yeah. Or they're building a GBTU interface for natural language. [00:25:47] S1: Sure, sure. No, I hear you. I think, again, if we go back to Bloomberg though, right? It is like, it is kind of that playbook as well. It's yes, they were a software and a data provider, but they also had their own media company. And before you know it, like the software provider is pulling from journalism that Bloomberg, the media company is doing. So vertically I remember Bloomberg [00:26:06] S0: was like, yeah, every article I put out, it sold more terminals. If only if only every company could be a media company, bro. [00:26:13] S1: Own your distribution, kids. I think that's we're telling you. [00:26:15] S0: Yeah. And if you wanna build out some media, come to the boys, Mike and Simi. [00:26:20] S1: I think two other learnings that can be applied here, and this is more so from Bloomberg than I would say Rogo, but sell before the product is out. I think that's so important. We used to talk a lot about that, but you don't want to spend, you know, a year or two years, whatever that looks like, developing out a product and at the ass end of it, realize like there's no customers for this. And I think that's what Bloomberg did really, really well. He was out selling the terminal before that thing existed. This was like back in the eighties. [00:26:47] S0: Right? Yeah. What he would do is he would just like deliver coffee at age 40. [00:26:50] S1: Yeah.