00:30:41 · Adam, Sachin, Henry Innis
[00:30:41] S2: to revenue scale. Open Source CEO is a great newsletter written by my friend, Bill Kerr, and it's read by over 30,000 people from Canva, OpenAI, and Stripe. And it helps founders, investors, and leaders in tech outperform the competition. [00:30:56] S1: The reason I always click this email when it's in my inbox is it offers such a variety of content. There's interviews with great founders like the founders of Mercury and Beehive, but also deep dives into the greatest companies of our times like Amazon, and 30,000 other people also enjoy this newsletter. So think about what we do with our podcasts, interviewing big figures as well as [00:31:15] S2: more up and coming startup people, and imagine it in a newsletter version. This is Open Source CEO. The newsletter also contains a list of those things that [00:31:23] S1: are always really hard to find. The best business books, templates, all the kinds of admin things that are very difficult to get your hands on. The newsletter also has those. All the resources for founders under one roof. [00:31:34] S2: Yeah. And what do you think the Australian VCs missed out on you as well? Like, what what did they not understand? [00:31:39] S0: Well, one glorious VC didn't, did they? EVP? Absolutely didn't. And, and Justin Littman and that person who have been... You should be a brand ambassador. I think... I I had a full on EVP brand ambassador. [00:31:51] S2: I saw that photo they made of you of you in the hospital, some text messages and stuff. [00:31:55] S0: Yeah. I was on your LinkedIn. Funding round.
00:31:55 · Henry Innis, Adam
[00:31:55] S0: Yeah. I was on your LinkedIn. Funding round. [00:31:57] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you in hospital? [00:31:59] S0: Yeah. Yeah. I just come out of a general anesthetic, and I was texted them manically, kind of jokingly. [00:32:04] S2: What what did all the others miss? [00:32:07] S0: Look, I think it's hard to say. I think there were very good reasons why they did it. Right? Like, I look at our business back then and I can kind of tell you the reasons. Early on, we hadn't been through a renewal cycle. That was a blocker for for most of it. It was like the risk of like customers not renewing is high. I think the... Then it became an issue of we scaled really quickly. We had to build some foundational teams. I probably wasn't good at P and L management. And so, like, our gross margin was shit, and we hadn't proven international. And so for the stage that we were at, like, we were always in a slightly awkward stage where we're probably just a little too early, and we hadn't proven enough things. Because I think really what what raising capital to me is about is about providing really good evidence to mitigate risk. Right? And so we didn't know how to frame things up like that. We didn't know how to explain things like that. And I think we were pretty lucky because, you know, I had Justin and Alan who effectively could look past that. And it kind of went, this guy will figure it out. And they had enough belief in the metrics of the business that that were really solid, that they're pretty comfortable with it.
00:32:07 · Henry Innis, Sachin
[00:32:07] S0: Look, I think it's hard to say. I think there were very good reasons why they did it. Right? Like, I look at our business back then and I can kind of tell you the reasons. Early on, we hadn't been through a renewal cycle. That was a blocker for for most of it. It was like the risk of like customers not renewing is high. I think the... Then it became an issue of we scaled really quickly. We had to build some foundational teams. I probably wasn't good at P and L management. And so, like, our gross margin was shit, and we hadn't proven international. And so for the stage that we were at, like, we were always in a slightly awkward stage where we're probably just a little too early, and we hadn't proven enough things. Because I think really what what raising capital to me is about is about providing really good evidence to mitigate risk. Right? And so we didn't know how to frame things up like that. We didn't know how to explain things like that. And I think we were pretty lucky because, you know, I had Justin and Alan who effectively could look past that. And it kind of went, this guy will figure it out. And they had enough belief in the metrics of the business that that were really solid, that they're pretty comfortable with it. [00:33:15] S1: Do you think they miss anything in you as a founder? I know that's hard to get that feedback directly at the early stage, but do you think they missed anything? Because clearly you're building an exceptional business now. I mean, I think that
00:33:15 · Sachin, Henry Innis, Adam
[00:33:15] S1: Do you think they miss anything in you as a founder? I know that's hard to get that feedback directly at the early stage, but do you think they missed anything? Because clearly you're building an exceptional business now. I mean, I think that [00:33:28] S0: I'm pugnacious and slightly rough cut and very competitive and probably don't fit that classic mold of a marketable founder. I wouldn't class myself that way. Know, I'm slightly overweight. I've got a slight double chin. I've got an unkempt beard and you come you come in Birkenstocks to that award ceremony at the airfield? Yeah. Yeah. I know the word. Yeah. And like, and you know, I've got thinning hair, you know, like, like, I'm not, I'm just not that classic found the founder type. [00:33:55] S2: What I trade on is grit and determination. It seems like Justin Littman saw that the grit and determination you call in him at like, I think it was 6AM every Saturday or something that he got really pissed off about. He wasn't dead. Everyone sort of underweighted that maybe.
00:34:08 · Henry Innis
[00:34:08] S0: He wasn't thrilled with that. I mean, but like it can come off as manic intensity as well. Like I I didn't really look back on it and go, what did people miss? I think I got lucky that someone's sure enough. Yeah. I mean, if that makes sense. Because, you know, I will say that even though... I don't know why this keeps turning but hang on. Even though a lot of the... Even though a lot of VCs like didn't invest, I would say a lot of them have been ridiculously helpful like and ridiculously supportive like I can, you know, name people from Airtree and SquarePeg and, you know, and some people from Blackbird and some people from, you know, overseas funds as well, you know, the title people have been great to us over the years, like, you know, but they introduce you to people, they help you get... You know, they refer great talent when they see them, like, you know, they help you look at metrics and think through problems. They help me think through overseas expansion, but this is all time that Australian VCs are giving me freely. And so I don't necessarily see it as, as well as like people kind of, know, left us by the wayside because I'm not sure that's a fair characterization. I do think that you have to give a lot of yourself to get stuff like... And I think the reason that people were quite open with me is because I was quite open with them about life problems I was having and things like that, and
00:35:26 · Adam, Henry Innis, Sachin
[00:35:26] S2: I think people kind of appreciate that. Yeah. And you mentioned this idea of, like, the marketable founder. Do you think that there's potentially a problem in Australia that we have a vision of, like, these sort of superficial characteristics that a founder might have? Yeah. [00:35:38] S0: And that we... I don't wanna go into it more than that. [00:35:42] S1: I do. Protecting your next funding round. But Henry, we've talked a lot about in the past, and you have some really intelligent opinions on is what's wrong with modern marketing. Obviously you were in this world for a while obviously, you know, you're dedicating the next decade or so of your life to fixing it. What do you think like the average marketer, the average company is getting really wrong right now?