00:00:00 · Henry Innis, Sachin, Adam
[00:00:00] S0: Concept of like pure play brand campaigns that don't mention products is one of the most dangerous things that have ever been created. And so I think that's a huge problem in the sense that we built this expectation up that brand marketing somehow should not deliver a sales result, and performance marketing is the only thing that can deliver a sales result. [00:00:43] S1: Hey, I'm Sachin, and I'm Adam, and welcome to our Build in Public series. This is going [00:00:48] S2: to be the deepest behind the scenes look of building a company that you've ever seen. We want to give you the raw and real details about the highs and the [00:00:56] S1: lows of building our company. We're documenting our journey from now to forever as two 25 year old best friends that are building the company of our dreams. We'll be [00:01:05] S2: talking about how we fundraise for this company, what goes on in a typical week, and some [00:01:09] S1: of the real challenges and how this affects our friendship. But also the day to day life, our relationships, how we're feeling in a given moment, and all the different things we're thinking about. So keen for you to [00:01:20] S2: come along with this journey with us and enjoy. [00:01:26] S1: Building Public 7 with a very, very special guest. We're lucky that we can call up some of the best founders in Australia to come and have a chat, chat with us, roast us, talk about ideas. Really excited to have Henry Innis, the co founder of Mutinex in the room today. Yeah. And this is [00:01:41] S2: only our second building public was having a guest.
00:01:41 · Adam, Henry Innis, Sachin
[00:01:41] S2: only our second building public was having a guest. [00:01:44] S0: So I hope you feel honored. Oh, pretty honored. Yeah. I'm like, it's... Yeah, it's fun. Let's rip it in. [00:01:49] S2: Yeah. And this is our channel where we try and go raw and rogue. So I feel like you're the sort of perfect guest for it because you're outspoken. You actually say things. [00:01:57] S0: Well, fuck. Everyone's so fucking boring. It's that is right. I like... Like, how sanitized do we need an ecosystem to be? It's like someone pulled bleach over half the fountain of Australia for life. [00:02:06] S1: You you would just [00:02:07] S2: say you came back from New York and everyone there is just more outspoken. They say what they want. [00:02:11] S0: I think Americans don't worry so much about your feelings. So they worry more about the outcome that they're trying to achieve versus like you kind of... And I think that's a very powerful thing. I think Australia is a lot more relationship driven and things like that. You know, to my mind, I think, yeah the America that they are just so transactional but they don't see it as a negative like if I was to say someone's transactional in the Australian environment it's like it's seen as a negative it's seen as almost like disloyalty to your mates whereas I think in the American example they're like no, I'm just optimizing to get the best outcome for me. And they're kind of okay with that. No social security over there. Right? So they have no concept of group collective. [00:02:49] S2: Yeah. Amazing.
00:02:49 · Adam, Henry Innis, Sachin
[00:02:49] S2: Yeah. Amazing. [00:02:50] S0: So I just think their culture is very different. [00:02:52] S1: Do you think do you think as we mature as an ecosystem, we'll get there in terms of how transactional we are?
00:02:57 · Henry Innis
[00:02:57] S0: I have no idea. I think it's probably more a function of culture. Like like like their culture is just so radically different. The only thing... Like, we we have a lot in common with them, but there's a lot that's different. I mean, I think as a founder, that's probably the thing I noticed the most, coming over there, their just way of doing business is very different. The intensity is very different. So what's easier and what's harder over there? What's easier is is it's much easier to to win business in my opinion if it particularly if they have the best product. It's much easier to kind of, you know, draw like a focus on an outcome and have like very quick conversations. The meeting culture is much better. Yeah. But I think what's harder is to work, like when something's going really wrong, it's harder to work through something constructively, like you're more likely to just be dropped and stuff like that. You're far less likely to get constructive feedback. I find like, like people are just more willing just to move on and and things like that. And I think people are far less like... They're far more binary in the way that they do things. So I think it's actually kind of harder to some degree to get like early product market fit signals, what you're doing well, what you're doing badly and stuff like that. So I think it's kind of like that's why there's almost a bit more of a valley of death early in The US scene and why they take maybe a little bit more capital longer to get to is potentially because of that, because an Australian will kind of tell you, work through and kind of, you know, give you a bit more, bit more like what I would call guiding feedback versus an American I think would just go this is great and then go away So it seems like how you guys built the business starting in Australia first kind of reaching PMF here and then going up to states probably I don't... It's like what's the stupid... Let's show what you got.
00:04:40 · Adam, Sachin, Henry Innis
[00:04:40] S2: We're, we don't really know how to [00:04:43] S1: talk about ourselves, but, [00:04:44] S0: yeah, so we're flipping these, flipping this shit. What's going on here? What's going on at Kindling? Yeah. Kindling. Okay. Sorry. Got the name right. I thought it was kind of kindling. So what's going on at Kindling? What's the first four months been like? What have you been doing? [00:04:58] S2: Yeah. Yeah. I think like it can sort of be summarized with us trying to find, like, exactly what are our pillars of content that we're gonna be producing for the world. Obviously, we're doing... We've got this huge focus on media in the first year, and we've got a whole bunch of shit that we're putting out there, ranging from documentaries, which are gonna be starting next week, podcasts, the building public podcast, vlogs, and just working out like, what is that content market fit? So basically PMF for a startup, we see
00:05:26 · Sachin
[00:05:26] S1: it as content market fit. And... Yeah. Yeah. Our strategy is, is that the media is the distribution arm of the business, and we'd wanna to cash flow positive as quickly as possible. We're actually doing pretty well on the revenue front, like that's been something that's going really positive. But to get it to the next level, we've kind of found this opportunity in documentaries that we're testing out at the moment. There's people that are charging founders like 60 to $70 for a pretty shitty documentary, And one of the big bets we have is that people are sick of interview podcasts. Discoverability on like new forms of media is harder, so you have to go algorithmic platforms first, and that's YouTube. So you essentially have to do well on YouTube because no one's scrolling through Spotify looking for new podcasts. They may get recommendations, but they're not finding them that way. And to go to do well at YouTube, you need to produce something that's worth watching. And so people could sit here and watch our very pretty faces for a while on YouTube, but we think the next generation of that is having cool b roll. Maybe it's you were walking through New York. Maybe it's you talking to customers. And that's like the next generation was when... If someone's investing that time to watch a twenty, thirty minute YouTube video, we need to make it worth their time with the storytelling and the visuals.