A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:39:28 · Pablo Srugo, Rahul Shivkumar
[00:39:28] S0: How, just taking a step back, actually, how do you build, what do you use to build a list? [00:39:32] S1: Yeah, so we're using, I think a lot of the obvious things. We're using Clay, we have like a master list of like healthcare organizations. We actually use the NPI registry too because all of our organizations have to register with a national provider identification number. So we've pulled that, we've enriched it using Clay, we've enriched it using ZoomInfo. So I think the thing there that was very helpful was actually having a primary source, like something like a, like a ZoomInfo as an example, but then also having a backup, right? If the ZoomInfo number is wrong, like maybe you're using Apollo or something like that as a backup, you're not just giving up because one thing on contact information, you're actually using like a, Clay helps you use like the waterfalls, which is very useful, but we found that to be super useful too. [00:40:14] S0: And are you doing multi-touch like LinkedIn, email outreach, plus the call or just straight the call? [00:40:18] S1: Pretty much. I think the touches that really work well for us are the phone call works well, LinkedIn works well, and I think we do a lot of conferences. So we meet people in person, we send our BDRs to a lot of conferences. People told us not to do it, they're like, hey, send AEs, but BDRs, like their lists are so specific that they actually, like what we want them to know is like these companies like the back of their hand.
00:40:18 · Rahul Shivkumar, Pablo Srugo
[00:40:18] S1: Pretty much. I think the touches that really work well for us are the phone call works well, LinkedIn works well, and I think we do a lot of conferences. So we meet people in person, we send our BDRs to a lot of conferences. People told us not to do it, they're like, hey, send AEs, but BDRs, like their lists are so specific that they actually, like what we want them to know is like these companies like the back of their hand. [00:40:41] S0: Oh, do you hypervert why you should have asked that? So you have somebody calling just dermatologists, for example. [00:40:45] S1: We've tried that in the past, but we actually have like logos now typed to like BDRs, right? It's like, hey, you have this set of like thousand logos that could be dermatologists, it could be behavioral health, it could be other verticals. Okay. When we've tried to verticalize, our business does have more success in some verticals than others. So you're setting like an unfair. [00:41:03] S0: Yeah, okay, okay. [00:41:04] S1: You give someone behavioral health as an example, which is where initially we had a ton of growth. Now it's like, [00:41:09] S0: Right, they seem like the best BDR of all of them or whatever. Yeah, you just set them up for failure or success, I bet. [00:41:13] S1: And then other people are like quite frustrated. So we did that. Early on, we were like that. Now we've like normalized it a little bit.
00:41:13 · Rahul Shivkumar, Pablo Srugo
[00:41:13] S1: And then other people are like quite frustrated. So we did that. Early on, we were like that. Now we've like normalized it a little bit. [00:41:19] S0: But that's not, that's the other question about volume. You mentioned, you know, a thousand logos. Like when you call everybody once, it takes you a week or two weeks, whatever it is you said, you know, 100 calls a day, 200. So what do you do after? [00:41:28] S1: Great question. So we want people to actually repeatedly call people. Don't just like give up after calling one person and they don't pick up. Like have them on a refer. And I recommend this too. Like just because you talk to one person at one time and they weren't interested doesn't mean three months later or six months later, three months is a little short. Six months later, they're not interested, right? Like healthcare is pretty cyclical where they might be on a contract right now. They might have another priority to start the year. But six months later, it's like, wait, this is now a priority for them. [00:41:56] S0: So that makes sense. I'd say six months, but walk me through the numbers. Like if you're doing 200 calls a day, I guess you don't talk to, but you only talk to 20 every single day. So you try them. You only talk to 20. Let's say it's 50 a week. Yeah. So what is that per year? What is that? 2,500? Is that right?
00:41:56 · Pablo Srugo, Rahul Shivkumar
[00:41:56] S0: So that makes sense. I'd say six months, but walk me through the numbers. Like if you're doing 200 calls a day, I guess you don't talk to, but you only talk to 20 every single day. So you try them. You only talk to 20. Let's say it's 50 a week. Yeah. So what is that per year? What is that? 2,500? Is that right? [00:42:10] S1: And we try to tie it to conferences too. So if you're a BDR that's calling these logos of a high concentration of them are at a conference, go there. You know, like you hopped on a call with this person three months ago. You had a two minute conversation. Introduce yourself in person, right? The multi-touch thing works super, super, super well. Yeah. [00:42:27] S0: Walk me through that call. So they get, so they're calling whatever. They finally get someone. What is, how long are they supposed to be talking? A perfect call. You know what I mean? Like, what does that look like? What's the goal? [00:42:38] S1: I have learned that a perfect call doesn't exist. [00:42:41] S0: There you go. [00:42:41] S1: I have seen our BDRs talk for five minutes and book a meeting. I've seen them talk for 45 minutes and book a meeting. I think the worst calls are when they get very salesy. One of the things I think I talked about earlier that our AE team is doing that we've seen success with the BDR team is like actually, like asking the person, right? Like, hey, like, have you guys seen, like, I'm like curious, like, have you seen like success with any other like AI deployment, right?
00:42:41 · Rahul Shivkumar, Pablo Srugo
[00:42:41] S1: I have seen our BDRs talk for five minutes and book a meeting. I've seen them talk for 45 minutes and book a meeting. I think the worst calls are when they get very salesy. One of the things I think I talked about earlier that our AE team is doing that we've seen success with the BDR team is like actually, like asking the person, right? Like, hey, like, have you guys seen, like, I'm like curious, like, have you seen like success with any other like AI deployment, right? [00:43:05] S0: But how do you do that? So walk me through, because in a demo, I get those discovery things because the person's like intent, I'm showing up. Yeah, okay, cool. Got it. You call me cold, right? Like, how do you get somebody to not hang up? I mean, that's really the only thing that you're fighting against. [00:43:20] S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great question. What have you deployed is actually way better in person. [00:43:25] S0: Okay, see, that makes sense. Yeah.
00:43:25 · Pablo Srugo, Rahul Shivkumar
[00:43:25] S0: Okay, see, that makes sense. Yeah. [00:43:26] S1: We're just immediately pitching them on like, hey, Assured does this, Assured does that. On the phone, I think it's like, you know, generally be friendly. I've seen our BDRs talk about like the weather, you know, like, hey, there's a storm here and in New York, I hope you're staying dry, right? Like, and then honestly, just like getting to the point as quickly as possible being like, hey, very upfront, like this is like a sales call, but like I'm curious, like how you guys are handling something like this. Is this actually a problem? The comment I made about the deployment thing, if the conversation keeps going, right? Like where they're like, yeah, you know, we've looked at this. Credentialing is like, maybe like not in my wheelhouse. Like rather than just give up there, I think asking something like, you know, what have you deployed, right? And they talk about positive things. [00:44:07] S0: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But the engagement, I think of that cold call as how do you hook, right? Because once you've got hook and you're talking, then you're in a conversation. Somebody might say, listen, I don't have that much time, but at least like you've got them. So you're reengaging and you're asking these sort of questions, right? First, it's like getting to pick up, but then they pick up, you're like, get them to not hang up within five seconds because they're like, listen, I'm not interested, right? Which is why I do 99% of the time when I get a cold call.