Digital & Dirt
00:50:29 · Ian Dallimore, Raj Lala, Doug Zarkin, David Sable
[00:50:29] S0: I love that career and personal life kind of come collide in a positive way. It's beautiful. So look, as we wrap up here, quick closure question. One sentence in your world, where is advertising headed next? [00:50:42] S8: There's there's gonna be so many things that happen, but in one sentence, think the advertising industry is going to undergo a big awakening. And a lot of the metrics of the past, I think are going to be obsolete. And yeah, brands are going to value things that are real and that consumers, you know, want to feel and think out of home is is, you know, going to be in a prime position for that. [00:51:07] S0: I love it. Raj, I'm extremely proud of you, career trajectory, the teams that you now lead in everything that you've done. It's it's very exciting and and I'm proud of you as a friend as well. Thanks. You've been [00:51:17] S10: the great work. [00:51:18] S8: Always appreciating you. Thanks for everything. [00:51:28] S0: Alright. My new friend, Doug Zarkin, CMO and author. We're gonna talk about your book, Moving Your Brand Out of the Friend Zone. I love that. [00:51:36] S10: Do you know what the friend zone is? [00:51:38] S0: Well, I'm I'm a little old to... I think I've missed that generation because I also know that there's, quite a few other phrases in the date world, but yeah, I know what the friend zone [00:51:46] S9: is.
00:51:46 · David Sable, Doug Zarkin, Ian Dallimore
[00:51:46] S9: is. [00:51:47] S10: Is the exact same thing in the dating world as in the business world where, in your personal life, I'm married twenty three years and before I met my forever someone, there may have been somebody in my life that I had feelings for that didn't have the same intensity for me. And they give you the virtual and physical Heisman. And in business, when you are in the friend zone, it means that you're really not intense in terms of the passion or trust that your consumer has. And what ends up happening is you turn around and your existing customers are firing you very quietly. [00:52:15] S9: And that's when a business is [00:52:17] S10: in real deep poop because they've overestimated their reliance on their existing customers to drive their business. [00:52:23] S0: And go a little bit deeper for me. In the world that we live in today, right? So you have, you could set this up Doug. [00:52:29] S10: It's all good.
00:52:29 · Doug Zarkin, Ian Dallimore
[00:52:29] S10: It's all good. [00:52:30] S0: In the world that we live in today, brand building is something completely different, right? Happens. A lot of us live in the friend zone and that friend zone may be an algorithm. Right. I jokingly, but seriously tell this story. I still to this day don't know this, and I'm masculine enough to say this. I use this moisturizer, this eye product at night, etcetera. Have no idea what the name of the company is because I saw it on Instagram and it's in a subscription. And if it wasn't subscription based, I probably wouldn't know where to buy it. Right. So we live in this unique world today where when you started as a CMO early days to where you are today, what did that challenge... That that book comes more to life than ever. [00:53:06] S10: You know, today, unfortunately for brands, we live in an age of endless possibilities. You know, it used to be great when you were competing against A, B, C, and D. Now you're competing against A, B, D, E, G, H, I, J, K, and more and more, and you're doing it in real time. And so brands really need to invest in creating strong relationships with the customer. If for nothing more than financially, it's five to 25 times more expensive to get a customer than it is to keep one. [00:53:32] S0: That's wild. [00:53:32] S10: And so why are all of the discounts? Why are all of the deals? Why are all the promotions? Why is the best of everything always to get you to come in once versus saying thank you for trusting us with your business, with your money. Let me reward you with something more.
00:53:32 · Doug Zarkin, Ian Dallimore, Barry Frey
[00:53:32] S10: And so why are all of the discounts? Why are all of the deals? Why are all the promotions? Why is the best of everything always to get you to come in once versus saying thank you for trusting us with your business, with your money. Let me reward you with something more. [00:53:45] S0: Yep. Is that why you feel loyalty and the loyalty rewards and the retail space has become even more prominent? [00:53:51] S10: I think the idea of creating stronger relationships has had to become more prominent because if you're trying to fight for market share and that is going to be your pathway to comps, you're never going to have enough money to acquire customers at the rate that you want. If your retention is not a small leak, but a massive hole. Too many times businesses look at their attrition and lifetime value and they're like, Oh, well, we're losing 40% of our customers. That's not so bad because we're keeping 60%. But to get that 40% to come back will not cost you nearly as much as it will to get another 40% of people to come to. And so brands have to invest. They have to invest in creating stronger relationships either through loyalty programs, incentives, relationships, or just frankly better communication. [00:54:37] S0: Yeah. And what does that look like? And I know every brand it's different, but I'll I'll tell the story. Good friend of mine is the cofounder of Goodr sunglasses. [00:54:45] S1: Okay. [00:54:45] S0: And a pair of sunglasses, what they do is, you know, spare our listeners the whole story of it, but they have this friendly, fun approach.
00:54:45 · Ian Dallimore, Raj Lala, David Sable, Doug Zarkin, Alex Grieves
[00:54:45] S0: And a pair of sunglasses, what they do is, you know, spare our listeners the whole story of it, but they have this friendly, fun approach. [00:54:53] S8: Right. [00:54:53] S0: I mean, they have this obscure CEO that's a flamingo that talks to you every time and it'll send you personalized texts like, hey, Ian, saw you snooping around on Instagram. Sorry, we're not creeping you. But does that universe starts to become even more important as the personalization once you're bought into the brand and you're like, okay, this is kind of like that friend. Or in your books case, it's like, hey, this girlfriend actually cares about me and knows who I am and what [00:55:16] S9: I do. [00:55:16] S10: You got to be careful because you can doesn't mean you should. Because you can send somebody a text message, because you can send somebody an email, doesn't mean you should. And I think what brands are suffering for in this attempt to try to rescue their existing customer base is let me inundate them with messaging. I mean, my best friend lives on the [00:55:35] S2: West Coast.
00:55:35 · Alex Grieves, Doug Zarkin, Ian Dallimore
[00:55:35] S2: West Coast. [00:55:36] S10: If I speak to him more than twice a week, it's a lot. Think about brands that are communicating two, three, even four times a week to their existing customer. There's not enough news, unless you're a medical based brand. There's not enough news to warrant you taking up my inbox or asking me to give you two minutes or three minutes. And so to me, it's not about more is better. It's about better is better. Educate me, entertain me, thank me, let me know you're thinking of me. But honestly, what I wouldn't kill for a brand to just simply pick up the phone and call and check-in. Yeah. You know, like doctors do. My, my, my family, we have two dogs and our vet calls the house two weeks after the appointment, not because she has to, but because Doctor. Jackie just wants to check on the dogs. And that means the world to me and is going to stop me from ever looking for another vet as long as I don't have to. [00:56:24] S0: Well, and it goes to your book, right? You taking that out of the friend zone and all of a sudden the brand cares about you beyond just the sale.