00:21:21 · Molly O'Shea
[00:21:21] S0: This episode is brought to you by Brex, my favorite. You become what you spend on. And I refuse to spend my time on work that shouldn't exist. Expense reports, receipt chasing, and manual closes. The companies building what's next from Vercel, OpenAI, Anthropic, Granola, and Deepgram all made the same call. They all run on Brex. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that combines cards, expenses, and banking into a single stack with agentic finance built in. AI agents that handle expenses automatically, enforce policy before spend happens, and close your books in minutes. That's why Sourcery runs on Brex, so I can spend time on building and not busy work. It's time to get Brex AF! Learn more at brex.com/sorcery. That's brex.com/sourcery. Bye. From Handshake to signature Harvey, the AI platform built for legal work, is trusted by 80% of the Am Law 100 and over 20% of the Fortune five hundred. Learn more today at harvey.ai. That's harvey.ai. AI needs more than chips. It needs power, land, and infrastructure. Zone develops next generation data center campuses, partnering with AI companies, site developers, and technology leaders to bring compute online faster and at scale. Zone is building the foundation of the AI frontier. Visit zonefrontier.com to learn more. That's zonefrontier.com to learn more. So where are you hiring people from? What were their roles? Because this is all, again, is all And very this is a common question I ask in these conversations because it's like, I have to remind people, none of this really existed like three or four years ago. And So how many people even are
00:23:16 · Gorkem Yurtseven, Molly O'Shea, Burkay Gür
[00:23:16] S1: in the beginning, it was an overlooked market because it happened at the same time with the LLM growth. Like, maybe if it happened by itself, it would have been the hardest thing, but it was, like, the second hardest thing. [00:23:27] S0: It's also hard because it's the creative industry. It's kind of at odds with technology to some degree. [00:23:35] S1: Is a lot of technology involvement in creative industries, right? Like even an IMAX camera is like the size of that table over There is technology involved in different parts of animation, filmmaking, bigger parts, and then hit clutters. And maybe we are going through one of those times where in the next five to ten years it's going have another outsized impact on the creative industries. But yeah, like AWS, AMD, they have massive media businesses where they sell to studios and media companies. This is just the next wave of it. [00:24:13] S0: Yeah, I think I was listening to something on Christopher Nolan and his infrastructure where he's keeping all that IMAX film. [00:24:23] S2: Yeah, 900. That's the... [00:24:25] S0: So heavy. Is funny. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the team and how you guys all gathered together. So you came from Coinbase, you came from Amazon. [00:24:36] S1: Amazon, yeah. [00:24:37] S0: Yeah. So how did you guys meet and what was kind of like the early culmination of gathering together a group? [00:24:43] S2: You go.
00:24:43 · Burkay Gür, Gorkem Yurtseven, Molly O'Shea
[00:24:43] S2: You go. [00:24:45] S1: So we are both Turkish, but we didn't know each other back home. We met in San Francisco, like when I first moved here 2014, immediately I met him. We were both working at different companies, minding our own business. And it was actually during Covid time, we've told this story a couple more times before, but we rented a house in Palm Springs and that's when we first thought, okay, maybe there is like a working chemistry between us and then it took us maybe another year to start the company. But that's how we met. We were longtime friends for over ten years and never worked together until that COVID Palm Springs house. And here we are. We've been building the company for five, six years now. [00:25:35] S0: And you've been pulling people from Coinbase? [00:25:37] S1: Coinbase and Amazon. It's [00:25:39] S0: funny. It's like [00:25:40] S1: from both places. Exactly. [00:25:42] S0: And so what were you looking for in the early days? What were the types of hires?
00:25:42 · Molly O'Shea, Burkay Gür
[00:25:42] S0: And so what were you looking for in the early days? What were the types of hires? [00:25:50] S2: I would say, like, just really good people in many ways. Like, I think one is obviously, like, they have to be excellent technically. I think early on, like, we definitely had to get the technical part right, because, like, were just doing a lot of, like, deep technical work. We still are, but at that time, that was our, like, differentiator. So, people who are really good at, you know, very good technically, I would say also, like, people who are just, like, people that we get along with. I think like early team chemistry is like really, really important. I think if you can, like figuring out like product market fit is probably the most challenging thing for a startup, right? So like you have to, in our mind, I think, you have to keep a pretty small team that can work really, really well together, that can like stick together and just have a really like great way of experimenting with ideas and then, like, throwing things that don't work and just, like, keep moving and keep looking
00:27:03 · Gorkem Yurtseven, Molly O'Shea, Burkay Gür
[00:27:03] S1: for And this is one of the biggest advantages of starting a company in your mid-30s because you have your whole working life, people you worked with, you trusted, you didn't trust, that you can bring in together. And as soon as you reach out to people, if you have something while they come and join you and they want to be part of the story, and if you are like younger you unfortunately don't have that. And you have to just go on your own and try to hire people and get trust. But here we build trust with so many people that early engineering team was almost all people like we knew before and worked with and trusted. Helped navigating the problem so much easier. [00:27:48] S0: What are your views on scaling up or keeping flat? [00:27:52] S2: So culture wise, like our company, I would say, is like flatter than your run of the mill startup. I think, like, the deepest level we have is, like, two levels of, like, reporting. And, yeah, I think that's by design, I would say. We really believe in this, like, super ICs. I think it's becoming more popular. Now it has a name. Don't think we have [00:28:20] S0: a Really? Yeah. Super ICs? [00:28:22] S2: Super ICs. ICs. [00:28:23] S0: So we have forward deployed... Deployed agents... Not agents. It agents? [00:28:28] S2: Well, agents. Agents soon. [00:28:29] S0: No. I mean, I should So know the final talent here quite we have forward deployed engineers and now we have super ICs. [00:28:35] S1: Super
00:28:35 · Gorkem Yurtseven, Burkay Gür, Molly O'Shea
[00:28:35] S1: Super [00:28:36] S2: ICs. ICs are, I think, like, now it's becoming a more common term. Basically, you want your, like, management layer to be super ICs. So people who are just, like, so epic at their job, they can, like, actually do hands on work and then they can also, like, lead teams. I think we have a very similar without, like, calling it this way, we always have the structure in a way that, like, essentially, like, we don't have peer managers. We don't plan on having peer managers. [00:29:06] S0: Yeah.