NZ Business Podcast - Paul Spain
00:34:51 · Jamie Beaton
[00:34:51] S0: So some of the most entertaining struggles, I say entertaining now after some reflection, but, you know, if you think about last May, Trump came out and said he was gonna ban all all Chinese kids from Harvard. He was gonna ban all foreign kids from Harvard. He was gonna freeze visa interviews to The US. Now, you know, at Crimson, about a third of our... Or two thirds of our college admissions revenue is foreign kids coming to The US. So theoretically, that would be quite spicy. Now, I guess, the interesting thing about the last couple of years is there's actually been more geopolitical instability than ever before. We, for example, have a big team in The Middle East based in Dubai. What we've seen in the last three, four years is probably unprecedented amounts of instability. You know? And I think as a leader, you're, of course, responding to not only, of course, looking after your team, but also this kind of evolving world. And and I think, probably for us, at least, the core demand to go to The US and, like, go to these top universities is not driven by a love of Boston or something. It's driven by the fact that there's a lot of economic opportunity for, you know, folks in these places, at least in early phase of their career. So despite a lot of these geopolitical shocks, the main themes of Crimson have remained very resilient. But, you know, for example, I never could have imagined when I began in Crimson that you'd have a US president trying to, like, nuke his own universities or, you know, to kinda throw out this instability. And so I think I haven't I haven't had to adapt to geopolitical shocks before then. There's also things, for example, China, they randomly woke up one day, and they banned all domestic tutoring. And so companies like New Oriental that were worth 30,000,000,000 dropped by 95% within a matter of days. Now that didn't really affect us, fortunately, because we do international students, you know, hitting abroad. But just being more aware that actually in business, no matter what you think is happening, almost anything you build, you know, can have some, you know, tail risk, basically. And then adapting for that, whether it be diversification, more geographies, just a more, I guess, strong intestinal fortitude within your team and culture, these things are very important.
00:36:42 · Jamie Beaton, Paul Spain
Because in this environment, like, you you truly can't know all the unknowns. [00:36:46] S1: And it seems like politics is is something that you're really interested in. You know, tell tell us about your your interest in in politics and learning about politics. [00:36:56] S0: Yeah. So I guess, firstly, on an academic note, I guess my interest probably began fairly early on in debating in high school in New Zealand, because a lot of the time you're debating different policy areas. And I guess when I was doing my DPhil at Oxford, was at the Blavatnik School of Government, which is all about how you take research and apply it in government to drive impact. I think government's interesting because you can have massive impact through policy changes, but it's so painful sometimes to get anything done in it's such an entrenched bureaucracy that is... And ultimately, politics is super consequential to the whole country's life or the world. I mean, you know, one man sitting in, you know, Washington, D. C. Can, you know, globally spike oil prices with, you know, the push of a button. And so I think for me, you know, it's very consequential to humanity. If done well, it can create massive change, and it relates to everything in business, of course, too. But ultimately, you know, it's the governing body that the Western countries have chosen to, you know, push their countries forwards, and that inherently makes it really interesting.
00:36:56 · Jamie Beaton, Paul Spain
[00:36:56] S0: Yeah. So I guess, firstly, on an academic note, I guess my interest probably began fairly early on in debating in high school in New Zealand, because a lot of the time you're debating different policy areas. And I guess when I was doing my DPhil at Oxford, was at the Blavatnik School of Government, which is all about how you take research and apply it in government to drive impact. I think government's interesting because you can have massive impact through policy changes, but it's so painful sometimes to get anything done in it's such an entrenched bureaucracy that is... And ultimately, politics is super consequential to the whole country's life or the world. I mean, you know, one man sitting in, you know, Washington, D. C. Can, you know, globally spike oil prices with, you know, the push of a button. And so I think for me, you know, it's very consequential to humanity. If done well, it can create massive change, and it relates to everything in business, of course, too. But ultimately, you know, it's the governing body that the Western countries have chosen to, you know, push their countries forwards, and that inherently makes it really interesting. [00:37:49] S1: So looking at New Zealand politics, what would you imagine a kind of a utopia or a sort of perfect version of New Zealand politics might look like?
00:37:49 · Paul Spain, Jamie Beaton
[00:37:49] S1: So looking at New Zealand politics, what would you imagine a kind of a utopia or a sort of perfect version of New Zealand politics might look like? [00:38:01] S0: That's a good... Well, that's a great question. I think at the core of New Zealand, there's a bit of a struggle between two alternative visions for the country. One, it's this hermit kingdom where foreigners can't, you know, move here, where we're locking ourselves off from, you know, trade, where, you know, we're happy to sort of just compete locally. We don't want Kiwis to move abroad, and we just look very inward. And the second is really a globally open competitive New Zealand that, you know, encourages people from around the world to be here, is proud of Kiwis to go abroad and shine abroad and come back. So I think as a country in New Zealand, we kinda have to decide. Do we wanna be a country for, you know, local born Kiwis that is pretty inward facing and we're kinda content with the economic consequence of that? Or do we wanna have a bigger vision for our country on the world stage? And so I think we're kind of wrestling with that right now. I think if New Zealand can decide, and I I personally think it should be the more open version of New Zealand that's ambitious on the world stage and lock into that vision, it provides at least an overarching framework everyone can get behind, and then you don't have as much, you know, fundamental policy disagreement.
00:38:01 · Jamie Beaton, Paul Spain
[00:38:01] S0: That's a good... Well, that's a great question. I think at the core of New Zealand, there's a bit of a struggle between two alternative visions for the country. One, it's this hermit kingdom where foreigners can't, you know, move here, where we're locking ourselves off from, you know, trade, where, you know, we're happy to sort of just compete locally. We don't want Kiwis to move abroad, and we just look very inward. And the second is really a globally open competitive New Zealand that, you know, encourages people from around the world to be here, is proud of Kiwis to go abroad and shine abroad and come back. So I think as a country in New Zealand, we kinda have to decide. Do we wanna be a country for, you know, local born Kiwis that is pretty inward facing and we're kinda content with the economic consequence of that? Or do we wanna have a bigger vision for our country on the world stage? And so I think we're kind of wrestling with that right now. I think if New Zealand can decide, and I I personally think it should be the more open version of New Zealand that's ambitious on the world stage and lock into that vision, it provides at least an overarching framework everyone can get behind, and then you don't have as much, you know, fundamental policy disagreement. [00:39:01] S1: From a a business perspective, you know, what would be the... Some advice that you would... You might share with with our listeners in terms of, you know, some something that's that's, you know, been really key for you and your success?
00:39:15 · Jamie Beaton, Paul Spain
[00:39:15] S0: I think almost any ambitious Kiwi company has to export and has to go offshore. For me, within the first eighteen months, we began selling into Australia and then, you know, going offshore. And New Zealand's a fantastic HQ location. Even today, our headquarters is in New Zealand, you know, and we're we're really proud of that. We've got many of our key executives here, but we've been able to take that and, you know, compete in China and in India and in America and and beat the local guys and build this global company. So I think as a Kiwi businessman or a Kiwi entrepreneur, don't be afraid to tackle Australia. Don't be afraid to look into Southeast Asia. And, you know, you've gotta get out there to win those markets. You know, we only were able to crack all these markets by flying out there, building teams on the ground, challenging the status quo. And I think, you know, we're well positioned to do that. New Zealand's a great place where there's, you know, almost no corruption. It's easy to register companies. It's easy to hire. There's great talent here locally. So it's a great hub. But because of the size of the country, we've got to export, compete, and win on the world stage. So I think if you've been, you know, boarding a great Kiwi company for five or six years and you haven't yet figured out a foreign market to attack, you know, maybe think about And [00:40:16] S1: looking at our tech sector, what your thoughts on, you know, things that we should be aware of, you know, going forward to help us do better?