Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Josh Kushner, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: If you have to pick between the most educated person, the most experienced person, or the person who wants it the most, you always pick the person who wants it the most. Thrive has built a culture of the people who want it the most. We are willing to do whatever we need to do to be in service to those that we work with. I don't think of it as work because I love what I do, but it is my job to do whatever I need to do to support those that we're fortunate enough to be partnered with. [00:00:00] S0: One of the operating principles is deriving joy from hard work. Maybe say a bit more about what it's like and the joy aspect of pushing oneself to one's limits, which sounds like a white-knuckle experience, but I think can also be joyful. What do you think about that idea?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Josh Kushner
[00:00:00] S0: One of the operating principles is deriving joy from hard work. Maybe say a bit more about what it's like and the joy aspect of pushing oneself to one's limits, which sounds like a white-knuckle experience, but I think can also be joyful. What do you think about that idea? [00:00:00] S1: If we were to reflect back on the history of the firm and the people at the firm, we're constantly pushing ourselves to try to be the best that we possibly can be, and I think sometimes these moments are stressful. But there's this concept of post-traumatic stress that people often talk about, which has devastated a lot of people. But there's a very small N of people that are actually able to benefit from something called post-traumatic growth. If you are thrown into a very complex situation and you're able to navigate through it, you're able to build a toolkit for the future. I don't think we seek out these complex situations, but I do think as a result of us being thrown into them either personally or professionally, we're able to deal with them. But I think in terms of pushing ourselves to our limits, it is amazing what one is capable of if they push themselves as far as they can. [00:00:00] S0: When do you feel and how do you feel extreme duress or stress? I've gotten to know you well now and seen you in a number of these moments. It actually seems like you, on average, get calmer and better in the crazy moments. Are you actually calm in those moments or are you freaking out? And if you're not freaking out in those moments, what does freak you out?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Josh Kushner
[00:00:00] S0: When do you feel and how do you feel extreme duress or stress? I've gotten to know you well now and seen you in a number of these moments. It actually seems like you, on average, get calmer and better in the crazy moments. Are you actually calm in those moments or are you freaking out? And if you're not freaking out in those moments, what does freak you out? [00:00:00] S1: It was funny, Karlie got acupuncture recently, as she was pregnant. The person who was there said to me, "Josh, do you want to do it?" And I said, "Of course. I'm happy to do it just to lie by her side." And he said, "Are you experiencing any stress at the moment?" And I said to him, "I've been stressed so much for so long that I don't feel anything at all." I've always fundamentally believed that every experience is training you for the next one. There's this great line that I shared with my family recently, "In order to become king, God didn't give David a crown. He gave him Goliath." And I think it's one of these true lessons that in life, every experience is meant to make you better. Every experience is meant to push you further. If you think of these moments as ways to learn and to grow and to become the best version of yourself – you don't wish them on anyone else, but also at the same time you wouldn't take them back because it's pushed you to the next level.
· Josh Kushner, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: It was funny, Karlie got acupuncture recently, as she was pregnant. The person who was there said to me, "Josh, do you want to do it?" And I said, "Of course. I'm happy to do it just to lie by her side." And he said, "Are you experiencing any stress at the moment?" And I said to him, "I've been stressed so much for so long that I don't feel anything at all." I've always fundamentally believed that every experience is training you for the next one. There's this great line that I shared with my family recently, "In order to become king, God didn't give David a crown. He gave him Goliath." And I think it's one of these true lessons that in life, every experience is meant to make you better. Every experience is meant to push you further. If you think of these moments as ways to learn and to grow and to become the best version of yourself – you don't wish them on anyone else, but also at the same time you wouldn't take them back because it's pushed you to the next level. [00:00:00] S0: Coming back to the experience with OpenAI, because you work so closely with them. I'm curious whether that inside view has made you do certain investments that you wouldn't have otherwise, or maybe more interestingly, not do other investments that maybe you would have otherwise? What does being inside that business teach you about where AI is and where it's going?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Josh Kushner
[00:00:00] S0: Coming back to the experience with OpenAI, because you work so closely with them. I'm curious whether that inside view has made you do certain investments that you wouldn't have otherwise, or maybe more interestingly, not do other investments that maybe you would have otherwise? What does being inside that business teach you about where AI is and where it's going? [00:00:00] S1: This industry is not just about the deals that you do, but it's also about the things that you don't do. Being inside of the business and learning from the people that I was fortunate enough to learn from within the company helped us avoid a lot of things that are ultimately not going to be on the right side of history. What these large labs weren't going to do that we thought were going to be large opportunities, I think pushed us in certain directions as well. [00:00:00] S0: When you think about AI just in general today – you've got one of the best views of it. Does the market feel frothy to you? Stripe and OpenAI – there weren't exactly lines of bidders out the door at the time that those companies needed capital from their partners. The line was you. Now, at least my experience of it is that AI for – name anything, cameras – has seven bidders. I'm curious if you experience that as frothiness, if you feel allergic to those situations where everyone wants to invest.
· Josh Kushner
[00:00:00] S1: The first and most important fundamental view is this core belief that this paradigm shift is the most important of our lifetimes. The internet was this incredibly democratizing technology in that it gave access to information. Anyone with a mobile phone living anywhere in the world has more access to information than the president of the United States did at the turn of the century. My view has always been that AI has potential to democratize access to intelligence. And the capacity for everyone to really get insight and perspective on any topic in a very nuanced way, and to be able to interact with that, is something that has the potential to be very powerful. I also think enterprise adoption will ultimately lead to businesses becoming more efficient. And that also has the potential to benefit consumers in a very meaningful way, because the only way to compete in a decade from now will be – are you a better product or are you a cheaper product? There's going to be so much transformation, so much enterprise value created. But naturally that will lead to a lot of people trying to chase the paradigm shift, and ultimately capital loss as well. It's very dangerous in moments like this to both be exuberant, or of a more negative perspective, because the types of things that are getting created in this moment could make a fairly meaningful impact on the next decades ahead. That being said, I've always viewed the best investors or leaders of investment firms as racecar drivers. You need to know when to drive at the speed limit. You need to know when to pull over to the side of the road and change your tires. And then, I think like we did over the last couple of years – you need to know when to look both ways, put your foot on the gas pedal and gun it.