Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:22:33 · Lenny Rachitsky
[01:22:33] S1: of my favorite posts of yours is along these lines, which is around increasing... What you wanna do is increase optionality. Yes. And I guess talk about that because I think it's a really powerful So piece of
01:22:44 · Elena Verna
[01:22:44] S0: this advice of career optionality being the ultimate north star for anybody in their professional journey is something that I'm very strong on because a lot of people have the goal of, I don't know, maybe I want to be a VP, or I want to become a CEO, or I don't know, I want to be a manager and I want to like people manage. And this becomes their north star and they start working towards it. But a lot of people, they get to their perceived corporate ladder north stars, find themselves extremely dissatisfied, depressed even, by how terrible that job is. Could people manage your job? I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy because it's a terrible job if you don't enjoy it and you don't know if you're gonna like it until you actually do it. So I think setting a title as your goal, which so many of us have titles as goals, is very wrong way to think about it as opposed to saying, Hey, my goal professionally is actually to have options so I can choose what I want to do, so I can choose what fits my life right now, that I can choose what fits my skills and that fits my personality, and that makes me happy. And to get career optionality, if that's your goal, you start thinking about your progression a lot differently. You're not starting to think about it of what will get me to the next title. You start thinking about what can I do next year that will increase my option pool? And that's very different than just getting to a higher title. And if you start thinking about evaluating opportunities or like whether you should stay at the company, whether you should move at the company from the lens of, does it increase my options if I stay at this company one more year? Or does it keep it the same? Or does it actually potentially decrease? That is the right way to find your ultimate happy place and happy job that brings you energy, that brings you happiness versus just going for a title and then being very disappointed with what that brings along with it.
01:24:48 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:24:48] S1: Amazing advice. So important. And something I'll add that I think is a balance to what people may be feeling here is like, oh, I'll just bounce around all the best logo companies and create this killer resume. I think you also need to build depth and actual experience Yes. That you can tap into if you do any of these things. For example, a lot of people wanna jump to, I'm gonna be a newsletter person. I'm gonna start podcast, be an adviser, before they've done anything real. And you have nothing to actually base your advice on. [01:25:14] S0: You have to earn your right to unlock optionality. And earning that right does usually lie within full time jobs. That is a universal truth. But then at some point, you should start not just looking at full time jobs as the only option that you have. You should start to think about when can you start unlocking new ones and testing the market on it. [01:25:38] S1: The other point is that you've been a great example of is it's not a one way door. You can have full time job, go to something else, go back to full time job, be an advisor, be an interim person, be a newsletter person. You do that really well. [01:25:52] S0: You should you should do it all. It's all a menu of options. And you pick a menu item that fits you best in any given point of your life. It's never say never and never shut the door on anything. Absolutely.
01:25:52 · Elena Verna, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:25:52] S0: You should you should do it all. It's all a menu of options. And you pick a menu item that fits you best in any given point of your life. It's never say never and never shut the door on anything. Absolutely. [01:26:03] S1: Oh my god. Elena, this was incredible. Before we get to our very exciting lightning round, is there anything else you wanna share or leave listeners with? Maybe a last nugget or thought or not? Because we've covered a lot already. [01:26:13] S0: No. I think we've covered so much. [01:26:14] S1: I don't [01:26:14] S0: wanna overwhelm. [01:26:15] S1: Let's do it. With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round. Are you ready? [01:26:20] S0: Yes. I'm ready. [01:26:22] S1: First question, surprise, surprise. What are two or three books you've recommended most to other people? [01:26:27] S0: Okay. So I just finished this book that I love so much. It's not a it's not a professional book, but it's Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir. It's the same author that wrote Martian. Martian also was made in the movie. [01:26:43] S1: So good. [01:26:44] S0: So good. I can put it down. I think I read it in like two days straight. So, highly recommend that. And the next one that I also started reading right now is Bobiverse. Bobiverse is so good. It actually takes into account of like AI and how we can upload our consciousness in AI and what can happen with that. So highly recommended. I think it's actually closer to what potentially can be in the truth for us in the future than not. But I'm a big sci fi geek, so I read mostly sci fi books.
01:26:44 · Elena Verna, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:26:44] S0: So good. I can put it down. I think I read it in like two days straight. So, highly recommend that. And the next one that I also started reading right now is Bobiverse. Bobiverse is so good. It actually takes into account of like AI and how we can upload our consciousness in AI and what can happen with that. So highly recommended. I think it's actually closer to what potentially can be in the truth for us in the future than not. But I'm a big sci fi geek, so I read mostly sci fi books. [01:27:13] S1: I have a sci fi recommendation for you that comes from Noah Smith. He has an... I love his newsletter. It's called Noahpinion, and he has a list of his favorite sci fi books that I've been working my way through. It's called... You may have read it by Vernor Vinge, Fire Upon the Deep. Have you heard of this? No. I have not. It's a... It's described as a... Not a sci fi, but space... Like a space opera where it's epic... The most epic scale of universe story. [01:27:38] S0: I'll download it tonight. It'll be on my list. [01:27:40] S1: Takes a little bit to get into. It's, like, quite unique, but you just keep going and it's incredible. And AI plays a big role in it actually. That's awesome. Okay. [01:27:49] S0: I'll then let it. [01:27:49] S1: There you go. Okay. Question number two. Favorite recent movie or TV show you really enjoyed?
01:27:49 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:27:49] S1: There you go. Okay. Question number two. Favorite recent movie or TV show you really enjoyed? [01:27:55] S0: Yes. I, just got to watching Beef on Netflix. It's so good. It's it's it's set on... I'm not I'm not gonna spoil it for anybody. Okay. Beef. You should watch it. It's a limited series. It's so good. It will it will run through. I love Veep on HBO. So funny. I've probably watched it two times already, the entire series, and I'll probably watch it more because it just cracks me up every time. I think this is actually how our government works. So I'm I'm I'm very intrigued by that. And then the last one that I really liked that is coming up with the season two now, so you should catch up on season one, is The Last of Us. If you don't like zombie movies or zombie shows, don't watch it. But if zombie and apocalypse is your cup of tea, The Last of Us, so good. [01:28:43] S1: Were The Last of Us or Last one of us? Last of us. [01:28:46] S0: Is it Last of Us? [01:28:47] S1: Let's... I'm googling while we talk. Last of us. I think it's Last of... Yeah. The Last of Us. [01:28:53] S0: Oh, Last of Us. Okay. Last of us. [01:28:56] S1: You're saying there's a third season coming soon. That's exciting. I didn't know that. [01:28:58] S0: Yeah. It's so good. [01:29:00] S1: Okay. I love it as well. Great pick. Okay. Your favorite product you recently discovered that you really like?