Marketecture: Get Smart. Fast.
00:17:11 · Ari Paparo, Alex Cone
[00:17:11] S0: Yeah. Yeah. So the interesting... Well, another interesting thing here is that the graphs that were shown and we were... This... I don't have the graphs to show on screen, but we'll put them in the notes. It's not really a linear relationship between ad density and count. It's more like a... It's a curve where it's pretty flat for a while, and then the... When you really get to excessive ad load that it... The performance drops off radically. [00:17:34] S2: Yeah. One of the things Chris pointed out in, which this also makes a lot of intuitive sense. Right? So like, you don't... Like, while... He was like, it's always better to have a lower ad count, which I think up to a certain point, and then there's no ads and then, like, it can't be doing anything. But, [00:17:51] S0: like Exactly. [00:17:51] S2: Yeah. Not always better to have lower density. And his explanation for that is the intuitive part, which is like, you could have, like, a little postage stamp ad that is different than a bigger ad. The way I've been thinking about it is two sites with 20% ad density on average. One of them has an average of one ad in view. The other has three, four, five. That is a different... Like, so comparing apples to apples on just density, I think, is part of why we decided, like, hey, there there's more dimensions you could look at here. But I think if you combine those, actually, like, could give you more insight both from an optimization standpoint, but also, you know, in targeting and Yeah. Reporting insights.
00:17:51 · Alex Cone, Ari Paparo
[00:17:51] S2: Yeah. Not always better to have lower density. And his explanation for that is the intuitive part, which is like, you could have, like, a little postage stamp ad that is different than a bigger ad. The way I've been thinking about it is two sites with 20% ad density on average. One of them has an average of one ad in view. The other has three, four, five. That is a different... Like, so comparing apples to apples on just density, I think, is part of why we decided, like, hey, there there's more dimensions you could look at here. But I think if you combine those, actually, like, could give you more insight both from an optimization standpoint, but also, you know, in targeting and Yeah. Reporting insights. [00:18:37] S0: So the obvious thing here is to, use this data to score URLs that you're bidding on, you know, negatively score higher ad loads. What about viewability? Like, I think, you know, folks pay a lot of money for predicted viewability scores across web pages. It feels like you're giving away for free, and they could avoid the tax.
00:18:37 · Ari Paparo, Alex Cone
[00:18:37] S0: So the obvious thing here is to, use this data to score URLs that you're bidding on, you know, negatively score higher ad loads. What about viewability? Like, I think, you know, folks pay a lot of money for predicted viewability scores across web pages. It feels like you're giving away for free, and they could avoid the tax. [00:19:02] S2: I wouldn't necessarily call these viewability because at at the end, this is page level data. It's not, placement level data. So what you're really getting is, like, what what on average... I guess, you could back into, like, well, if there's one ad on average in view... In the viewport, like, that's potentially helpful to a viewability vendor. The way that we've thought about these metrics is, obviously, you can grab them directly, but we think that they will probably take off more if they get baked into products. So I I I I don't think there's a a viewability solved directly in this. That said, the browsers had this thing called intersection observer for a long time that actually makes viewability pretty straightforward, but that's a whole another topic. [00:19:52] S0: Yeah. I've been hearing that the viewability vendors are gonna go out of business, like, five years because of exactly what said. The browsers can do it. So why are paying anybody? But I'll leave that to another episode also. So is Google using these signals for advertising?
00:19:52 · Ari Paparo, Alex Cone
[00:19:52] S0: Yeah. I've been hearing that the viewability vendors are gonna go out of business, like, five years because of exactly what said. The browsers can do it. So why are paying anybody? But I'll leave that to another episode also. So is Google using these signals for advertising? [00:20:06] S2: Google is exploring the use of these signals. Our friends at DV three sixty had provided a supportive quote like some other folks that aren't in Google for the initial launch. I'm, like, I'm trying to get those guys to use it just the same way that I'm I'm out here in London. Right? Like, trying to get more folks to use it. It it will be great when they do, and I'm glad that they're exploring it. It's like, they're kind of at the same stage as everybody else [00:20:32] S0: on Right. It's on the road map. How many meetings do Let... [00:20:36] S2: Let's get this on the road map. [00:20:37] S0: How many meetings... Internal meetings did it take to get that supportive quote? [00:20:43] S2: It it it helps it helps that a lot of the people that work on ads are people that, like... Because I've worked in ads for so long, like, at various companies, like, happen to also now work here. So it wasn't it wasn't so bad. I... The... But, yeah, you you worked here before. You know it takes... You have to bring everybody along. [00:21:02] S0: Yeah. You need you need to get a... Create a deck, and then the most important thing is you have to get to the meeting first so you could plug in your deck and someone else doesn't present their deck. It's like deck priority.
00:21:02 · Ari Paparo, Alex Cone
[00:21:02] S0: Yeah. You need you need to get a... Create a deck, and then the most important thing is you have to get to the meeting first so you could plug in your deck and someone else doesn't present their deck. It's like deck priority. [00:21:12] S2: Oh, that's a good... Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Don't want [00:21:15] S0: somebody else to beat [00:21:16] S2: the deck. [00:21:16] S0: Yeah. It's like the fight over... It's like teenagers fighting over the aux. It's like Google product managers fighting over the presentation cord. It's really Remember [00:21:25] S2: that that Ari sample is from a long time ago. I've never seen this happen. [00:21:30] S0: Yeah. No. I would go into meetings, and they'd present decks about my product and what I should be building. It was great. Yeah. So No. [00:21:37] S2: They they were they were they were helpful in terms of just like other folks that we talked to and like, does this even make sense to do this? No. And we got good feedback from them. And, yeah, they... I I I enjoy working with those guys. [00:21:51] S0: So how does this fit in with what Sincera did and OpenSincera that's currently available? Is it duplicative? Is it different? You're inspired by it? You wanna give shout outs to the Sincera team?
00:21:51 · Ari Paparo, Alex Cone
[00:21:51] S0: So how does this fit in with what Sincera did and OpenSincera that's currently available? Is it duplicative? Is it different? You're inspired by it? You wanna give shout outs to the Sincera team? [00:22:00] S2: I would start by saying inspired by it. When we were thinking about things we could do to improve ad experiences, the inspiration was like, hey, it seems like the ecosystem is starting to pay attention to this, which is a really good sign that, like, maybe there's some, like, wind we can put in these sails. So our... Like, my goal would be that these get pulled into Sincera in some way, shape, or form. Meaning, like, hey. They could be used, I don't know, like, from a scale perspective. They could be used from a, hey. Let's compare what we're getting to what Chrome's getting to just, like, check. That said, like, two of the metrics in there came from feedback from talking to Mike and Ian, the the weight metrics. So, like, I want to see people using these metrics in their products, like, full stop. We don't have a business around this. And at the end of the day, whether you use our metrics or somebody else's, if the outcome is that it... It's reducing overwhelming ads and publishers get rewarded in in that, like, world and don't just lose on that, that's a good outcome. So I think... I... I'm hopeful that those guys, like, find value, in in the metrics, but they're definitely inspiring to them.