Relentless
00:39:09 · Chris Wright, Scott Nolan
There will be negatives. People are going to abuse this power. It is going to displace people out of some jobs, but it's going to create other jobs. I think net net net it will create way more jobs, way more economic opportunities, but it will be disruptive. But we need to lean in honestly, candidly, and sincerely in contrast to fearmongers. Right now, the fearmongers are winning hands down. [00:39:33] S2: Yeah. As go back to some of the numbers we were talking about earlier, I'm just thinking about the scale of the investment, trillions of dollars into these data centers at these 100 gigawatt plus at these scales. If those companies want to invest in the grid, if they want to push energy back, whether it's 1.1, 1.2, maybe 1.21 gigawatts back onto the grid for every gigawatt that they consume, how do they do that? Is that a utility thing? Is that a FERC issue? How do we set them up to be able to drive it back on? I'm wondering if there's any incentives that could be set up to make that easier, because that's how you get the rapid benefit to the local community. And then the jobs benefit versus jobs loss, that's a much harder one to predict. But I think if you know that you're driving electricity prices down, that's good for people. [00:40:21] S1: Scott, here's a simple high value idea. I was saying, electricity at different times of the day has very different values. Really matters why does California have crazy high electricity prices? Because at crunch times, they're short of electricity and they have to ration demand and prices skyrocket.
00:40:21 · Chris Wright, Scott Nolan
[00:40:21] S1: Scott, here's a simple high value idea. I was saying, electricity at different times of the day has very different values. Really matters why does California have crazy high electricity prices? Because at crunch times, they're short of electricity and they have to ration demand and prices skyrocket. [00:40:37] S2: Yep, it goes back to baseload basically. Yeah,
00:40:39 · Chris Wright
[00:40:39] S1: or dispatchable even more so. Like if you operated a day, which is why I also believe I don't think there'll be a lot of data centers or large generation that's isolated from the grid. There may be some, but I think the economics and logic are much stronger to have a connection. Even if most of your capacity goes to run your own facilities, if you're on the grid and at times of these peak demand, these are hours a year, hours a year, You're running a training model, you turn it down a little bit and you push a few 100 megawatts to relieve grid stress. That's very valuable in driving down rates. Having some capacity needed, we did a short term version of that in Florida where we had all the grocery stores in Florida turn on their backup generators. This generated an enormous amount, gigawatts of additional power so we could keep the classrooms open in Florida on a Monday morning where there wasn't enough electricity to heat the homes and the schools. So I think there's it's just using electricity when it's the highest value and diverting it into communities to keep down rates, building some infrastructure for those communities and communicating the amount of tax dollars and training, high paying jobs, not just during construction, then maybe you don't have massive staffs operating data centers, but when they're there, it builds sister industries around them that are going to bring a lot of jobs and opportunity. I was in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It is amazing the economic stimulus that's coming from a data center that's about two thirds done. It is amazing.
00:42:11 · Scott Nolan, Ty Morse
[00:42:11] S2: Yeah, I was talking with someone earlier and they were referencing some of the stats and job creation of one of the big projects coming and it was tens thousands of construction jobs, thousands of permanent jobs. So it's it's very real. And and, yeah, great point on interconnect. Even if you can produce behind the meter, if you're doing if you're doing, like, a nuclear power plant next to your data center, maybe you don't need to be connected. If you're doing turbines, if you if you want those, you know, five nines of reliability without a huge infrastructure build out, then being connected to the grid lets you call on that when necessary and then in other times do curtailment and not just help but make a lot of money by doing curtailment with the utility. [00:42:50] S0: I think right now, like, we've done a pretty good job of flipping the first domino to kind of make it so 2030, things are much better than they're at right now. But past that, like, how do we basically structure things so that with the long term in mind, can keep on scaling through, you know, 2040 and two and fifty to get to hundreds of gigawatts of new generation?
00:43:12 · Chris Wright
[00:43:12] S1: I think all of these things get cheaper at scale. Scott's innovating. He's going to find a new way to enrich uranium. It's going to be different than it's done before. As he scales up his business, his cost to deliver his product is actually going go down. And the whole idea of small modular reactors is everything in our lifetimes that is built in a factory has become cheaper and faster to build. When you stick build something on location, those things have become more expensive and slower. That's a long story behind that. But the more you can build in quantity in manufacturing facilities, we're very good at driving the cost of those down. So to build nuclear systems and nuclear supply chain at scale, I think that's the road to lower cost. Why were the last two plants we built in The U. S, the Vogtle three and four expensive? Well, we hadn't built any plants in decades and we tried to stand up a supply chain to build two reactors and then all the jobs went away. So as we look at it long term, that scale you're talking about decades ahead, that's the way to build nuclear power plants cheaper. That's the way to build natural gas and fuel cells cheaper. That's the way to build energy storage cheaper. I think it's going to be the pathway to lower cost and certainly as a percent of people's incomes, think the cost of electricity and energy are going to decline meaningfully in the next ten or twenty years. Again, not a trajectory of the Biden administration, but that has been a mindset of the Trump administration, and I am seeing it bipartisan. Democrats in the Senate, Democratic governors, I think common sense is catching on that, you know, the worshiping at energy subtraction and energy fear mongering. That still exists, but it's more in small corners now. Most common sense is catching on. People realize Americans are mad at expensive electricity, and they're mad at their jobs going overseas. They just want lower prices and higher wages. You know? That's that's the Trump administration agenda, and it doesn't sound like it should be controversial.
00:45:08 · Scott Nolan
[00:45:08] S2: Yeah. I think the people... The thing people are also realizing is it's just really hard to predict what it's going to be. People wouldn't have predicted that fuel cells are going be used to harness energy from natural gas. They did predict that it would actually be much more about intermittent and renewables. And then it turns out that we need a lot more baseload, we need a lot of just energy growth. So I think the mistake is often in trying to overprescribe what the answer is without knowledge of what's coming next. It's just very, very hard to predict. And so you have to let the market figure it out for itself and let the market actually do these things, like scale the production. You know, the second Vogtle plant was much, much cheaper than the first, and the third would have been cheaper than that. And so how get do to a world where we're producing much more of these things and actually hitting the scale effects of factory built reactors, of factory built anything? This is the future that we're preparing for, so acknowledge it is very hard to predict what's going to happen if you're not driving it personally. The thing we're driving is nuclear. So our bet, to your question, like, what are we looking at ten, twenty years out if we're talking about 10x power consumption, another 10x, another 10x, I I... You know, I'm forced to acknowledge that one approach to this is orbital data centers. I worked at SpaceX early in my career. That's one angle is you just say, we're gonna go to an entirely new paradigm, and we're going orbital. We're gonna go sun synchronous satellites. We're gonna build them, and we're gonna do everything there and harness the sun's energy. That's a good approach if you can do it, and I think only SpaceX is set up to do that right now. I think for everybody else, the answer is going to be you do it on the ground, you find ways to get more baseload, and the thing we're trying to help with is nuclear. And so how do we scale nuclear? And so the thing the thing we're focused on is fuel in our case. And I think just to get to, like, the exponential numbers topic... Because you could say, well, okay. Can we get a second facility online? Right now, there's one in The US and New Mexico run by a European consortium. Makes about a quarter of what The US needs. And so you say, Okay. Well, maybe we'll have a second one.