Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:24:39 · Cristóbal Valenzuela
[00:24:39] S0: Yeah. I mean, I think the the question there is not if it can happen, it's more how we'll position and well prepare our institutions for that, Which is not a question of like, if it can, it's like why and when, you know? Look, I can make, people are making incredibly like compelling videos and stories with fully, they're fully synthetic or fully generated or a mix of like real live action and also generated. And it's just really good. Just really good. I think there's natural like tendency from institutions to try to reject it first. And that actually for me is like a great Absolutely. Yeah. It's a great sign. Again, you look at the history of art, that's been like the trend when new generations like question that that's at the school and the establishment is to, they're going to get rejected. That actually like was what like impressionism was at the time. It was a rejected art and they've, they formed the Salon of the Rejected to show their own work. And eventually like that rejected became like the norm. And I think that cycle keeps on repeating where like the establishment that has been like dominating, like the art culture, like sets what the principles and the standards are. And then newer generations question that and make things in ways that are not supposed to be made. And then they kind of effectively end up winning. And, and then you do it again and again and again. And so when I've, I think we're at a point where like, you can make incredibly compelling, like incredibly compelling music and content and videos and films and ads and whatever you want. It's how we want to like treat it that like will matter the most. And I think it's probably institutions already adapting to that.
00:26:24 · Alexa von Tobel, Cristóbal Valenzuela
[00:26:24] S1: That's beautifully said, which is when you're really pushing the boundaries of the status quo, it's... The the first ending is rejection. Right. And that a [00:26:34] S0: great sign. [00:26:35] S1: Which is a great sign. Okay. Question. I wanna shift to the future. You are uniquely positioned to see what the world could look like as somebody who's on the bleeding edge of this. So as these models move towards real time generation where video isn't rendered or edited but fully generated live, what does that change? And and I'll give just some examples of what went through my head. But, like, as we think about the future of gaming or entertainment or even advertising, can you just, like, stretch our thinking, Cristóbal, to, like, what you see as, like, kind of wild out there possibilities that happen when there is no editing, there's no cleanup. It's just in real time, all of us could be viewing something totally different and unique.
00:27:26 · Cristóbal Valenzuela
[00:27:26] S0: Yeah. It's, I mean, it's hard to predict because you have to, like, be there to see it. And I think a lot of it will be shaped by people more than any other company. So it's less about us and anyone else saying like, are the four or five things. You need to think about it as a general purpose medium. Like the many use cases of the camera were not driven by one person, it will, was driven by decades of experimentation and tinkering and putting things in different places. I think we're real time. We're gonna, we're already experiencing a version of the same, which of course you can think about the obvious ones. Gaming is kind of like around the corner. You can create very interactive, interesting, playable experiences with real time models. Then you can think about tutoring and like live experiences where you're to have a version of this, Imagine I'm, I was actually, I did a, I did an example of this when I was chatting with like Socrates and like Aristotle, so you can just like discuss things and you're immersed in a conversation that you just couldn't do before. And it feels very natural because you're both seeing each other. You're, you're, you're kind of reading like the, the, the, the way I'm saying things. You can read the way they're saying things. You can think about that. You can think about like companions. Like there's many opportunities for people to have someone in their side, onto their side when they're doing things they haven't done before, when they're alone. And there's many interesting use cases that I think we're just like starting to grasp and begin to experiment with. Because it's early, these models specifically in real time, we have a, like a model that we released a couple months ago called characters that allows you to run a conversational agent and, and a, and a model in that, in that domain. It's only a couple weeks old. And so it's very early, early beginnings of that new real time world.
00:29:08 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:29:08] S1: Give me like examples, like try to bring this into the reality. Is this like game that I can play in in real time that is imagined in real time? You just sort of said, like, discussion with Socrates and Aristotle as a method of learning. Give us some, like, examples to try to make this as real as possible.
00:29:33 · Cristóbal Valenzuela
[00:29:33] S0: I mean, you're you're kind of, like, heading directionally, like, into the right, like, set of examples. And maybe going back to the idea of, like, mental models and what needs to change. Like when we say a game, like there's rules and systems of what a game is, specifically when you think about a real tool or like a digital game. But like, there's opportunities for us to create a new type of experience that I call nonlinear. Nonlinear meaning like there's no beginning and end, and you can take it as an open ended world. And the only shape and form we have to do that in a digital form is a video game. But the moment you open it and have an open ended world, you can have a nonlinear experience that doesn't and may not feel like a game. Right? So it's like, if I spend six hours a day chatting with a fantastical character, that's like driving my imagination in interesting places, and it's helping me think, what is that? Is that a game? Is that a film? Is that a phone call? Is that a interaction? My position is like, well, the problem is not how, what to name it. The, the, the, the thing here is that we need to understand that experience as a net new thing. We've never been able to do such a thing in the first place. So by labeling a game, I'm actually like underestimated, you know, we might think about it like differently just because we're putting it, the mental models and the rules of what a game should be like. But if you wanna spend six hours with chatting with your your favorite philosopher and you find it entertaining and you find it the most value you've gotten from a, like media experience in a while, that's amazing. What name do we put to it? I don't know. I We'll don't figure it out. It's something important.
00:31:15 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:31:15] S1: That's a bit of your example that you started with where you were like, when we went from painting to a photograph and we tried to stretch them as the same, but they have fundamentally different, maybe, rules and applications than what you could And think about we're trying to use the labels of what we know as the world we know it. But it sounds like what you're really saying is, like, we are net new creating. This is a net new creation of a medium. Correct.