00:37:46 · Anish Acharya
[00:37:46] S1: I agree. Everyone should be converging to a 100. Okay. I've got a couple more questions here, Luca, and then we'll wrap it out. So, you know, one question is, you've talked about how within Bending Spoons, every decision should be able to make with maximum rationality, but that doesn't necessarily mean always being led by data and analytics. And LLMs can also often create a sort of false precision. Is there a type of decision where you found being instincts led versus analytics led has led to better outcomes?
00:38:13 · Luca Ferrari, Anish Acharya
[00:38:13] S2: So I think analytics and instincts are inputs. So data is an input. My instinct that something is off or this could be cool is an input. You want to get as many inputs as possible within reason. But then I I don't think there's ever any case in life where you should be deciding with any other than anything other than logic and rationality. Again, it doesn't mean that simply because an analysis shows that, you know, people in France are more likely to buy this, then we do that and we do it in France. It's it's just again one input in a broader discussion, but I don't think there's ever a good reason to say we'll do this because I feel like it, you know, unless we're talking leisure, which is all about feeling feeling a certain way. Right. Even if you are the most... You wanna be as creative and imaginative as possible, but again, those are just inputs. Those were produced ideas or options that you wouldn't otherwise have considered, but you don't pick those simply because they... You got them in the spur of a moment and you're super excited about them. You wanna ponder them and determine whether that excitement is is justified, and if so, yeah, go for it. Absolutely. [00:39:20] S1: That makes sense. So maybe one question on behalf of founders who feel like they're stuck. You know, the definition of hell is never winning and never quitting. How should founders know when it's time to kind of move on versus... And of course, this is a difficult question versus, hey, maybe you're three months away from the next increment.
00:39:20 · Anish Acharya, Luca Ferrari
[00:39:20] S1: That makes sense. So maybe one question on behalf of founders who feel like they're stuck. You know, the definition of hell is never winning and never quitting. How should founders know when it's time to kind of move on versus... And of course, this is a difficult question versus, hey, maybe you're three months away from the next increment. [00:39:36] S2: Yeah. I got it. I wish I had a good answer. You know, I... I'm probably awful at that because my my my startup before Bending Spoons Evertail, we were worked at it for three years and you know how we failed. So it clearly wasn't working. We were trying to use AI way too early, clearly to write a diaries for people automatically. Clearly wasn't working, people were in news needs, certainly weren't paying for it. But we kept pushing, we raised a little extra money to keep going and pivoted and pivoted and pivoted and then at some point, we were left with maybe something like maybe 250,300 thousand dollars. But much of that was meant to be through a... A tax return from the Danish government at the time we were based in Denmark. I don't remember exactly the bureaucratic aspects of it, but something like that. Then we got a message from the government that refund either wasn't due ultimately or was due twelve months later, something that would basically that put us out of business and so they... You could argue that red tape made the decision for us. So I'm not very good at that. I feel I can't advise. Bureaucracy created Bending Spoons.
00:39:36 · Luca Ferrari, Anish Acharya
[00:39:36] S2: Yeah. I got it. I wish I had a good answer. You know, I... I'm probably awful at that because my my my startup before Bending Spoons Evertail, we were worked at it for three years and you know how we failed. So it clearly wasn't working. We were trying to use AI way too early, clearly to write a diaries for people automatically. Clearly wasn't working, people were in news needs, certainly weren't paying for it. But we kept pushing, we raised a little extra money to keep going and pivoted and pivoted and pivoted and then at some point, we were left with maybe something like maybe 250,300 thousand dollars. But much of that was meant to be through a... A tax return from the Danish government at the time we were based in Denmark. I don't remember exactly the bureaucratic aspects of it, but something like that. Then we got a message from the government that refund either wasn't due ultimately or was due twelve months later, something that would basically that put us out of business and so they... You could argue that red tape made the decision for us. So I'm not very good at that. I feel I can't advise. Bureaucracy created Bending Spoons. [00:40:53] S1: Yeah. You heard it here first. Okay. Final question. Luca, for the next rate technology company that comes from Italy or even from the region, what do you think they should learn from Bending Spoons, and what do you think that, you know, they should think about for themselves?
00:41:08 · Luca Ferrari
[00:41:08] S2: Yeah. They they should definitely think think with their own heads. 100%, there's no... I've never seen a great entrepreneur, a great inventor, a great engineer, a great artist, a great anything who doesn't ultimately take responsibility for their own decisions and is intellectually independent, but some things that I feel are almost universally useful at least in entrepreneurship and business are ambition. I feel... Look, ultimately it's very subjective. Personally, I think that you can only do so many things and almost anything is more interesting, is a greater likelihood of ultimately being rewarding if you aim high. So just aim for, you know, now aim for the moon like that's lost all its flavor because of the crypto guys, but aim high, aim very high. Two, again, try to try to be rational. Be as creative, imaginative, passionate as you can be, but ultimately try to make decisions using logic that will get you much further. And by the way, some of the biggest inventors in history do that pretty well. I think Jobs did that well, certainly Bill Gates did that well, Elon Musk clearly, you know, does that well, Bezos, they're all guys with big ideas, but ultimately they don't pick them because they say, well, that sounds so cool. Let's do it. They look at the facts and all the at the first principles and ultimately account for decision of those. So I'd say ambition, rationality, and then going lower by one level, but really do not underestimate how important it is to have a talent dense team, and how impossibly hard it is to improve talent density if you started with very low talent density for for a bunch of reasons we probably don't have time to discuss, but most most of those should be fairly intuitive.
00:43:03 · Anish Acharya, Erik Torenberg
[00:43:03] S1: Luca, you built one of the most unique and successful companies in the world. Congratulations, and thank for spending time with us today. My pleasure. [00:43:16] S0: Thanks for listening to this episode of the a 16 z podcast. If you like this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on x at a sixteen z, and subscribe to our Substack at a16z.substack.com. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode. This information is for educational purposes only and is not a recommendation to buy, hold, or sell any investment or financial product. This podcast has been produced by a third party and may include paid promotional advertisements, other company references, and individuals unaffiliated with a16z. Such advertisements, companies, and individuals are not endorsed by Ah Capital Management LLC, a16z, or any of its affiliates. Information is from sources deemed reliable on the date of publication, but a16z does not guarantee its accuracy.