WTF Online
00:44:06 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:44:06] S1: I think no one's contesting that productivity will go up in societies. I think everybody's aligned to that. The only question is should you be... People with most risk capital will have the best models by virtue of how much money they pump into those models. But if these large model companies are going to cannibalise the end product if you build on top of them, I think for a young entrepreneur it's important not to be shortsighted and kind of like diversify and hedge what they build on top of. It's not the right analogy but not end up in a world where an Android or an Apple can charge you 20% free to live on that platform but use more open sourced versions and diversify that risk I think is important today. [00:45:06] S0: I agree that like, you know, you need to take a like a longer term view and it's like the the starting point cannot prevent you from being in that in that in that long term. So, you know, if you if you if you can accelerate your value delivery by building on any of the platforms, it's fine. But if if there... If you think, you know, as an entrepreneur, you think that any of those platforms might take over your space in next few years, then, yeah, then you need to be... [00:45:35] S1: Because these platforms have to make money somewhere tomorrow. I saw OpenAI is experimenting with ads for the first time, but to justify those valuations and to stop burning money, they have to make money.
00:45:35 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:45:35] S1: Because these platforms have to make money somewhere tomorrow. I saw OpenAI is experimenting with ads for the first time, but to justify those valuations and to stop burning money, they have to make money. [00:45:47] S0: They do. It's like almost the, you know, the... Like, Google will have so much advantage by Mhmm. Potentially running longer with all the infrastructure and not doing ads in the same way. Yeah. So we'll be we'll be... Yeah. I'd say it'll be an interesting one. But I I like, you know, like, as say, a company is built on Double L Lamps, voice visual. I think that the the main the main combination, like, if you know the main extremely well Mhmm. Then the AI model gives you a good starting point, but then integrations with the system, the legacy systems of how you deliver that telephony, how you bring the knowledge, that will take so much time, then, like, building the trust with evaluations, monitoring, that will take a lot of time. So I I think there's, like, so much opportunity for entrepreneurs to just take any of those models Mhmm. Go deeply into the domain and combine both... Best of both. [00:46:38] S1: We've been flirting with the idea of building a social media platform in India. How do you think [00:46:44] S0: Other of Zerodha or separately? Separately. [00:46:47] S1: Zerodha is more like fintech, asset management, broking. [00:46:51] S0: But you could do like a super app effectively as, you know, it's a [00:46:54] S1: You know, super apps have never worked in India. A lot of people have tried it. Actually, outside of China, they've
00:46:54 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:46:54] S1: You know, super apps have never worked in India. A lot of people have tried it. Actually, outside of China, they've [00:47:00] S0: not worked anywhere. Right? Really? Yeah. I... I'd say I'm wondering whether in... [00:47:06] S1: Do you think that has something to do with... [00:47:08] S0: You know, I have an example where it did work, is, like, an interesting one. The the... In Ukraine, they have a super app, which I think is brilliant. Also, we have a pleasure of working with with their government and where they are trying to create the first agent in government, but they have a Diia app. It's effectively a citizen support app where you can ask about the benefits programs, employments programs, the different things that are happening in India. And that's how it started. So, like, effectively, an app that every citizen can have. Of course, the passport information, the visa information, etcetera, that you can travel and ID yourself with. But then they have multiple ministries and the way they operate. So they have multiple ministries where you have tech resources embedded in those ministries. So foreign affairs will have a few engineers working there. [00:48:07] S1: Mhmm. [00:48:07] S0: Internal affairs will have that. Education ministry will have that. And now those people try to figure out how to automate part of of of of the government work, and then then bring it back to the digital transformation ministry [00:48:21] S1: Mhmm.
00:48:21 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:48:21] S1: Mhmm. [00:48:22] S0: Which is responsible for the citizen support app. And now what has started happening is that it started effectively adding modules across the entire government, so now you can have health care information. Now you can have education where you have personalized content for you based on things that you know, and and I thought it was brilliant. It's... And what we do with them is now help bring the voice into the equation, you can communicate and call a lot of that or you could learn by speaking. But you literally have all the modules deployed across the government services. And I I thought it brilliant for two reasons. One is, like, that you embed those resources. Like, in the AI world, it feels so right. That's that's that's, like, as I think about young entrepreneurs building their companies, like, you want, of course, engineering talent, but you want the engineering talent in in sales and go to market and and and and and and and finance and and, like, all divisions because it can help get smarter. So I like it for that. And two, despite everything that's happening there, they are actually can truly from everybody worked of leading the way with like the one of the best apps that I've seen. [00:49:23] S1: In places like India, there's the David and Goliath problem. When you're David, everybody loves you when you're starting something. When you become a Goliath of a company, inherently people dislike large corporations in a strange way. [00:49:41] S0: It's almost everywhere a little bit.
00:49:41 · Mati Staniszewski, Nikhil Kamath
[00:49:41] S0: It's almost everywhere a little bit. [00:49:43] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Even in America, think. There's a little bit of anti incumbency and a rebel in everyone and hence I don't think a super app works in places like that. [00:49:52] S0: Why did you want to start the social media? [00:49:54] S1: I believe social media is broken today. We were looking at data from a bunch of people that the really young people sixteen-twenty take snapchat for example. They might be logging into snapchat the same number of times but the amount of time they're spending on it is significantly lower. If you take Instagram, it's become almost no organic content like Mati will not post a picture of his, I don't know, you having a drink on a weekend nor will I or nor will anybody, none of my friends. It seems to be a place where brands are showcasing different things and influencers are trying to sell one thing or the other either consciously or subconsciously. To have an app which is not governed by an algorithm which kinda insinuates and incentivises a reaction in you by triggering hate or emotion that I don't think is conducive in the long term I think is useful. Also I don't like the fact that a foreign nation controls the algorithm that defines the mood, nature, and evolution of the youth of my country. [00:51:19] S0: And in the incentive side, do you have a take of how, like, how you change the incentives to get people to pause the organic side?
00:51:19 · Mati Staniszewski, Nikhil Kamath
[00:51:19] S0: And in the incentive side, do you have a take of how, like, how you change the incentives to get people to pause the organic side? [00:51:27] S1: I think we are thinking of a very, like, very tight funnel on the top where we control who enters the app. Like, incumbent social media probably has bots engaging with you and trolls engaging with you and I don't know how much of it is organic and how much of it is not. But the idea is to have a place where real people can connect with real people, speak about real things without I don't think anybody can take out bias altogether but with significantly lower bias and a place which is safe to have discourse. I might agree with you on something, I might disagree with you on something but I don't think there is a place or an ecosystem today where you can have that conversation. So we hope to kind of create it. But I'd love advice from you. Broad thoughts on what should a new social media have. Also, how voice plays a part in whatever the newer version of social media is.