00:39:29 · Mati Staniszewski, Nikhil Kamath
[00:39:29] S0: Don't you think... Let... Let's take WhatsApp, there's, like, a network effect of just so many users already using WhatsApp where it just it just convenience of being on the same platform? [00:39:39] S1: I would have thought that but when I look at what's happening in China and Russia and they have their own versions, it seems to be just fine. And also in a way when there is evidence of these global tools being weaponized by governments in one way or another. I think the world will be a lot more skeptical in using a product just for the network benefit. You know what I mean?
00:40:06 · Mati Staniszewski
[00:40:06] S0: I I do I do know what you mean. Although, I do I do disagree. I think it's all partly disagree. I I, like, I agree. Data, residency, yes. 100% should be in a in a specific countries. Also, I agree that, like, the the the the the... Sorry. The product shape will will, like, kind of evolve, so, like, every country will use their own own proprietary data to create their variations of the product. Mhmm. But my... Like, you know, I don't know if that's optimist or or, like, the the the kind of the value part, but I do think there's, like, a global component of of a lot of infrastructure or software still being international, like, let's take building foundational AI models, I think the the the kind of the the base will be pre trained by few companies in the world, just given the resources required, they'll be open source. And and and, of course, offerings in that in that bucket. But then, probably, must have been thinking about the government space or companies in all of the sectors, they will use those to fine tune it based on their data. And it's still huge advantages Mhmm. But just just not, like, entirely built into... Independently. On the product, there's a very, mean, interesting interesting that you think... I I can see, like, how creating software is becoming so easy that you could, like, imagine creating that on the on the fly everywhere. I just I just think the network effect of having people on the same place Mhmm. Is compounding in many ways. Mhmm. Like, almost like as, you know, like, as I think about... Yeah. It's not the same, but in in our case, we have a voice marketplace in ElevenLabs where people create a voice. They can... We authenticate it, then we can share it, and then the moment the the AI voice is used, you earn money. Now we have 10,000 voices created this way, and we paid back over $11,000,000, coincidentally, back to that community. And it definitely helps. They have, like, so much styles, accents, and it's a... You know, of course, you could replicate at scale, but you won't have that same community mechanism of paying back and making sure people can trust that software. So I do think there's some element of trust that that is embedded. So maybe network and trust.
00:42:17 · Mati Staniszewski, Nikhil Kamath
But, you know, I guess what you are saying partly is with what happens with the geopolitics side is, like, the trust element may be broken and you kind of need the alternative for... [00:42:27] S1: It seems to be breaking. Right? [00:42:29] S0: I hope I hope it's, you know, it's a temporary glitch, but it's like more like... It's not it's not going down, it's more like sine x times x curve when it's continue going up and and and it's... Yeah. It's it's just like a little bit of a correction. [00:42:43] S1: Yeah. I mean, I watched a bunch of these people speak over the last week and, you know, even when they walk out of the room, it could be the European leadership or the American leadership, People don't look happy. People look like they're angrier than they were last year for example or the year before. Every year people are progressively angrier and it seems like they're voicing it for the first time. You know, people walk out and speak in their own languages. Most of it you can't understand but you can see the expression on their face in a way I think.
00:42:43 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:42:43] S1: Yeah. I mean, I watched a bunch of these people speak over the last week and, you know, even when they walk out of the room, it could be the European leadership or the American leadership, People don't look happy. People look like they're angrier than they were last year for example or the year before. Every year people are progressively angrier and it seems like they're voicing it for the first time. You know, people walk out and speak in their own languages. Most of it you can't understand but you can see the expression on their face in a way I think. [00:43:18] S0: I do think people became more authentic in the like like last year to last year to maybe it's like in a version of like there's just so much AI content and and things that like you need to be authentic to to to to like break through that noise of AI. But I feel, you know, and and less on the politics side or geopolitics side because I agree that's like that has definitely influenced the emotions. And I'm probably a little bit too much in that bubble of AI and tech, but huge huge positivity compared to last year or two of, like, shift from how bad... How much of the risk it poses... Like, how much of the risk AI can mean, but increasingly into also how much opportunity AI can can give. But, of course, it's such a such a tricky week of geopolitics this week. So...
00:43:18 · Mati Staniszewski, Nikhil Kamath
[00:43:18] S0: I do think people became more authentic in the like like last year to last year to maybe it's like in a version of like there's just so much AI content and and things that like you need to be authentic to to to to like break through that noise of AI. But I feel, you know, and and less on the politics side or geopolitics side because I agree that's like that has definitely influenced the emotions. And I'm probably a little bit too much in that bubble of AI and tech, but huge huge positivity compared to last year or two of, like, shift from how bad... How much of the risk it poses... Like, how much of the risk AI can mean, but increasingly into also how much opportunity AI can can give. But, of course, it's such a such a tricky week of geopolitics this week. So... [00:44:06] S1: I think no one's contesting that productivity will go up in societies. I think everybody's aligned to that. The only question is should you be... People with most risk capital will have the best models by virtue of how much money they pump into those models. But if these large model companies are going to cannibalise the end product if you build on top of them, I think for a young entrepreneur it's important not to be shortsighted and kind of like diversify and hedge what they build on top of. It's not the right analogy but not end up in a world where an Android or an Apple can charge you 20% free to live on that platform but use more open sourced versions and diversify that risk I think is important today.
00:44:06 · Nikhil Kamath, Mati Staniszewski
[00:44:06] S1: I think no one's contesting that productivity will go up in societies. I think everybody's aligned to that. The only question is should you be... People with most risk capital will have the best models by virtue of how much money they pump into those models. But if these large model companies are going to cannibalise the end product if you build on top of them, I think for a young entrepreneur it's important not to be shortsighted and kind of like diversify and hedge what they build on top of. It's not the right analogy but not end up in a world where an Android or an Apple can charge you 20% free to live on that platform but use more open sourced versions and diversify that risk I think is important today. [00:45:06] S0: I agree that like, you know, you need to take a like a longer term view and it's like the the starting point cannot prevent you from being in that in that in that long term. So, you know, if you if you if you can accelerate your value delivery by building on any of the platforms, it's fine. But if if there... If you think, you know, as an entrepreneur, you think that any of those platforms might take over your space in next few years, then, yeah, then you need to be... [00:45:35] S1: Because these platforms have to make money somewhere tomorrow. I saw OpenAI is experimenting with ads for the first time, but to justify those valuations and to stop burning money, they have to make money.