01:15:42 · Georgie Healy, Michelle Gilmore
[01:15:42] S4: Why do you think these startups are lying about their metrics then? Like Because they'd [01:15:47] S1: like to. Yeah. And and I I think that there is a certain type of founder that does it for reasons which is about perceived success, which is very different to real tangible success, and that wearing the badge of founder is is a found... Is a badge that makes certain personalities feel really great. But, actually, running a healthy, sustainable business that employs real people, that makes real revenue, that delivers real value to customers, is really hard, and you have to show up every day. Yeah. And you have to be a good leader, and you have to be a good human. And it's it's so challenging, which is why so few people just jump around. Right? They just start the new one.
01:16:32 · Sachin, Xharmagne Carandang
[01:16:32] S2: Which is, I think, exciting coming back to what you were saying, Xharmagne, for Australian founders where because we have less noise around us, we can actually focus on customers more. And then once you solve that thing, then expand to The US. We kind of had a conversation about this about ten days ago in our company where we're like, we actually have a real opportunity here, where there's a lot of people in our industry that have raised a lot more money trying to one shot that way. If we do it, you know, with humans in the loop first, and slowly get there a little bit more incremental, build a much better product, and don't go on Twitter and see who's raising what, because as we know, it doesn't really matter. There's companies that have raised a lot of money that don't have very good products, right? And I think that's been more true now than ever before. You can go in and a lot of people get experimentation revenue where people are willing to try them, but then churn rates are like, you know, greater than we've ever seen before for some of these top companies. [01:17:23] S0: But that's the thing, think building a good product sadly is not enough. Again, you have to get in the room and prove that you are the better product, and that's the weird part.
01:17:23 · Xharmagne Carandang, Michelle Gilmore
[01:17:23] S0: But that's the thing, think building a good product sadly is not enough. Again, you have to get in the room and prove that you are the better product, and that's the weird part. [01:17:33] S1: Yeah. Depending on the context. I think that Lorikeet absolutely is in a difficult situation in that there are... And Steve and I were chatting about this, that there are some kind of the copycats that are even copying, like, exactly what you say about your product the week after you do it or the day after. [01:17:48] S0: Oh, did have that. [01:17:49] S1: Yeah. Which we're finding at Juno as well, but I think that who you're selling to is is sort of the same. And on face value, it's not until you get in there that you really feel the difference, and you have a setup debt. Mhmm. Whereas, Juno, you can start using it in three minutes. Yeah. Right? So we don't, like, we don't have that needing to kind of front load those bets. Yep. Like, we can we can go a little wider and cast a cast a wider net because our customer is literally anyone that wants to talk to someone about their service product experience. Governments, organizations, childcare centers, schools, consumer brands, like, it's just a broader one. [01:18:34] S0: Depends on your customer. [01:18:35] S1: I do still think, though... I mean, I'm a giant fan of Lorikeet, but I do still think that quality will continue to be your moat. Oh, for sure. As I think the market will start... Your buyers will start to understand what those notions mean, and you guys will just stay the course.
01:18:35 · Michelle Gilmore, Xharmagne Carandang, Adam Miller, Sachin
[01:18:35] S1: I do still think, though... I mean, I'm a giant fan of Lorikeet, but I do still think that quality will continue to be your moat. Oh, for sure. As I think the market will start... Your buyers will start to understand what those notions mean, and you guys will just stay the course. [01:18:51] S0: Oh, yeah. For sure. Like, I'm not discounting definitely. I'm I'm such a big product design fan. It's just that get in there somehow, and then hopefully build your reputation from there. Because I heard the Cluelly investor... Was it a 16? [01:19:06] S5: Yeah. Because they said that, oh, we bet [01:19:08] S0: on them because, yes, hype distribution hype. That means they can attract talent that can help them build better product. I don't know. But, you know, even they're betting on product. [01:19:17] S1: Aren't they just sort of scaling disappointment if they have a family product? That's the thing. Hype does. [01:19:23] S2: But... No. And I was thinking that do it until the models get better, and then they make their products actually [01:19:29] S0: Balance a whole other thing. [01:19:30] S1: Yes. Think that they just raise another round quickly and... [01:19:34] S0: No. To hire good people to actually make the product better. AI model or not. [01:19:40] S2: This is a serious hate. Like, it's... [01:19:41] S1: Yeah. Know. It's fascinating. Yeah. Also, whether you've got long game in mind or whether it's [01:19:47] S0: a quick.
01:19:47 · Xharmagne Carandang, Daniel Palmer, Michelle Gilmore, Adam Miller
[01:19:47] S0: a quick. [01:19:47] S3: What we've found, and I'm sure you've seen this as well, is these really hot startups pop up in SF and then they disappear after six months. After the seventh one of those, you start to just feel like, okay, you know what, I'm just gonna focus on It what I [01:20:03] S1: doesn't matter. They don't have the stamina. They don't have the resilience, the experience. They haven't done it. They haven't built companies and sustained. I think that the the front bit is so fun. [01:20:17] S0: Mhmm. [01:20:18] S1: It's like the start of a romantic relationship. There's a reason. Mhmm. [01:20:22] S5: It's the honeymoon series. [01:20:23] S1: It's limerence bit. Like, there's a reason your brain is in a particular state, and early stage startup is like that, particularly when you raise and it's so exciting and there's so much adrenaline and and the press releases and all of those things. And then the dust settles, and it's just hard work every day. Mhmm. And the quality of decision making, I think, is also what's really important, and that's what distinguishes a great product from a bad product. And that's something that you actually can't buy. Like, you can't buy the focus, the decision making quality, and the tenacity of the founders that are gonna win. And so you have to have learned how to make good decisions.
01:20:23 · Michelle Gilmore, Georgie Healy, Adam Miller
[01:20:23] S1: It's limerence bit. Like, there's a reason your brain is in a particular state, and early stage startup is like that, particularly when you raise and it's so exciting and there's so much adrenaline and and the press releases and all of those things. And then the dust settles, and it's just hard work every day. Mhmm. And the quality of decision making, I think, is also what's really important, and that's what distinguishes a great product from a bad product. And that's something that you actually can't buy. Like, you can't buy the focus, the decision making quality, and the tenacity of the founders that are gonna win. And so you have to have learned how to make good decisions. [01:21:04] S4: Mhmm. I think it's a generation thing as well, perhaps, too. Like, these are quite young adults. Think of what they've experienced. They went through COVID, they were completely online. The only way to get success was of eyes And and they're being rewarded for it. So they're like cool. That's what I'll continue [01:21:28] S5: to do.... Point here that there is this new generation of founders that are built different that do think about distribution in a different way, and a very, like, for them, you have to have that really high quality launch video and and sort of make that hit. And I think there's a bit of a new archetype emerging, and I'm sure part of that archetype, a lot of them will take it too far.