00:39:34 · Daniel Palmer, Xharmagne Carandang
[00:39:34] S3: buy. You know? We've seen that time and time again. [00:39:38] S0: One Yeah. Thing on the talent, if we say there's talent density over there, I mean, we see people from Australia go, oh, that is Mecca. I'm gonna move there right after I graduate. So one trick is how do we stop that? Fill that environment and tell them that that isn't... Doesn't have to be Mecca, like you're saying.
00:39:38 · Xharmagne Carandang, Sachin
[00:39:38] S0: One Yeah. Thing on the talent, if we say there's talent density over there, I mean, we see people from Australia go, oh, that is Mecca. I'm gonna move there right after I graduate. So one trick is how do we stop that? Fill that environment and tell them that that isn't... Doesn't have to be Mecca, like you're saying. [00:39:56] S2: I think Canva is doing some interesting things there. They're growing their research team quite rapidly. They have a few people in SSAT, but their research team is is is here, and they've just brought in a head of research. I think that's probably one of the few companies in Australia that's genuinely doing proper ML research. If that cascades into, I'm sure a lot of those people will start companies, there'll be some good talent on the market. But then also, like, I think another thing we didn't mention about SF is the Stanford and Berkeley, they're two of the best, like, technological institutions in the world. And I think like there's this essay by Paul Graham, Cities and Ambition, which I really like. And one of the things it says is that a city is downstream of its like institutions. So like there's a reason Boston has such a good deep tech scene because at MIT that there's a reason that there's a lot of great philosophical thinkers and writers from Cambridge and Oxford because that's what those institutions reward. I don't think any of our institutions really stand for much in terms of like being world class in something. I think that's downstream of people wanting to go to other places.
00:40:55 · Adam Miller, Sachin
[00:40:55] S5: Interesting anecdote, I would say most of our most ambitious founder friends has moved to SF, but a lot of them continue to hire in Australia, partly for that R and D question, but also partly, there's just great talent here. And they want to be close to what they feel like is the zeitgeist at any given moment, like literally being able to network out towards your customers, but still they hire a lot in Australia. [00:41:19] S2: I [00:41:21] S5: was just gonna bring it back to something we were talking about before. Michelle, you were talking about amplification and displacement in something what you're saying before. And think a lot of what people are questioning right now is what does AI amplify and what does it take away? You know, people are talking about what are the skills that are still going to remain with AI and what gets amplified. So I'd love to hear from perspectives about what are those skills that are going to remain with us and still be important.
00:41:21 · Adam Miller, Xharmagne Carandang
[00:41:21] S5: was just gonna bring it back to something we were talking about before. Michelle, you were talking about amplification and displacement in something what you're saying before. And think a lot of what people are questioning right now is what does AI amplify and what does it take away? You know, people are talking about what are the skills that are still going to remain with AI and what gets amplified. So I'd love to hear from perspectives about what are those skills that are going to remain with us and still be important. [00:41:48] S0: I think we're driving... Like, people who are building AI powered apps help design and drive that as well. It depends on what we build. Because I was thinking about this whole industrial revolution versus AI, and one thing I've noticed, at least, you know, from, for example, coding, augmented coding, I can do better because I I know the foundations. I'm already a senior engineer. It helps me a lot. And so that human expertise matters a lot to be... As in AI amplifies it more because there's already a good base, if that makes sense. What I'm worried about is the people who don't yet have the base in much, like grads, whatever. Will there be a gap there? Will the people who are already skilled be so amplified and the people who aren't, will they be left behind? [00:42:36] S5: I also think that something just to set the scene for this discussion a little
00:42:36 · Adam Miller, Sachin
[00:42:36] S5: I also think that something just to set the scene for this discussion a little [00:42:40] S2: bit more is I think people in tech think that everyone has 100% agency to go learn anything. Doesn't work like that. But I hear a lot of things like, oh, you can just become an expert prompter if you are, I don't know, working for the government. And it's just like, the world doesn't work where we perfectly rationally acquire all these skills and change our personalities and our behaviours. So I think that's just a comment I want to make as we set the scene for this. [00:43:05] S5: Yeah.
00:43:07 · Michelle Gilmore
[00:43:07] S1: I think that... I mean, Juno is my fifth company. Right? So I I think that I've employed... I haven't worked for anyone else for twenty years. So it's it's hard for me to think about the kind of employee perspective, but I can talk with experience to the employer experience and hiring more traditional developers and engineers and be... Building, like, traditional software versus what we're doing now. I mean, one of my most talented engineers is self taught. And he's brilliant because he's an incredible philosophical thinker. Like, he can understand relationships and object definition, and distinction, and actually all the things that make a great engineer an engineer, like high IQ, mental acuity, being nimble, being adaptive. And I I do think that traditional engineers that are rigid in their thinking are actually not as good in the current space that we're working in, which is why places like SF are going to see a little bit of a ripple, I think, because what's been successful there and what's been rewarded there is not necessarily what we're talking about. And so I'm really excited by people that are really great at critical thinking, problem solving, people that can do debate really well, people that are interested in, creativity and philosophy. Yes. There needs to be an expertise, obviously. I need them to be able to do something in my company. But I am thinking very differently about talent and the results and the value that you can generate in my company Yep. Which I don't think is what we were thinking about ten years ago. It's it's absolutely not how we were thinking about technical talent nor how we were thinking about, you know, that wage that I was applying to that human and what I was gonna get out of them. It's it's a... It's almost kind of created this horizontal notion as opposed to this vertical notion that we were working on before, which is why I think things like institutions and universities are over the next decades going to become less and less important, which will hurt places like SF, right? Because they've leaned on that as opposed to other places that don't necessarily have that branding of the institution, but don't necessarily have to compete with that anymore.