00:24:32 · Stacy MacGyver, Jeff Guo, Erika Beras
[00:24:32] S10: But generally, it's like, why why are we not doing this? [00:24:38] S3: Stacy said learning what politicians had or hadn't done before was pretty eye opening. Most of these ideas, the politicians had seen and heard before, yet they hadn't made any changes or reforms. [00:24:50] S2: Stacy was also frustrated because all the work she and the other citizens had done amounted to just a proposal. They had to present their proposal to Sean, the state comptroller, who would then present it to the state legislature, and they would then maybe make them into bills and then maybe vote them into laws. [00:25:10] S10: I left every session completely deflated and thinking there's no way we can fix this. There's no way. How are we ever gonna fix this? It doesn't matter what we say because even if they say they're gonna bring it to legislation, they bring it there and then it gets voted down. Or they do vote for it and then they change it and then put the money somewhere else. So what are we doing? Like, why do you even want us here? What is the point of us being here? [00:25:39] S3: Yeah. So far, most of the citizens' assemblies that have been tried around the world haven't been given that much power. They can't make the laws themselves. Their ideas usually still have to go through the regular political process, through the same politicians who struggled to take action and pass laws in the first place. And this worried Riley, the lifelong Connecticut resident. [00:26:01] S2: What would be the worst possible outcome of all of this?
00:26:01 · Erika Beras, Riley Jano, Jeff Guo, Helene Landimore
[00:26:01] S2: What would be the worst possible outcome of all of this? [00:26:06] S11: I mean, worst possible outcome is nothing. I'd be frustrated. I could imagine being a little insulted. [00:26:15] S3: A couple weeks ago, the citizens voted on the final proposal. We got our hands on an embargoed copy of it. There was gonna be this big press conference in front of the State Capitol Building. Sean, the state comptroller, would be flanked by some of the citizens as they finally revealed this proposal to the public. [00:26:33] S2: But the night before, I got a text from the state comptroller's office. The press conference was canceled. So I called up some of the citizens. It turned out two big dramatic things happened. The first had to do with the last meeting of the citizens' assembly. Some of the citizens were not happy with how the final proposal turned out. They were upset because some of the proposals had been changed without enough discussion, like the millionaire's tax. They had initially agreed on a 4% tax, but at the final vote, the proposal had been changed to 1%. [00:27:10] S3: Nevertheless, the citizens voted and decided to include the 10 proposals, including that 1% tax on millionaires. The second big dramatic thing had to do with the organizers themselves. [00:27:23] S4: One of the organizers had a concern about releasing those proposals in the middle of an electoral cycle, which had always been the plan.
00:27:23 · Helene Landimore, Jeff Guo, Erika Beras, Sean Scanlon
[00:27:23] S4: One of the organizers had a concern about releasing those proposals in the middle of an electoral cycle, which had always been the plan. [00:27:35] S3: Alain Landimore, the political scientist, was a little bit shy at first about naming names, but eventually, she revealed that the organizer who didn't want to release the proposals was none other than the comptroller, Sean Scanlon, the politician who had given the citizens that pep talk at their first meeting, who had agreed to help the citizens get their ideas heard by the Connecticut legislature. [00:27:57] S2: Were you the hang up then? [00:28:00] S8: I wouldn't say that I'm the hang up. I worry that two weeks before an election is just utter chaos and the silly season of politics. And that if we put their recommendations out in the last two weeks of a campaign, they were either not gonna be taken seriously, not given the credit that they deserved, or used as a political football. [00:28:19] S2: Sean told us he was having second thoughts about putting these proposals out so close to the upcoming elections. He says he didn't think his party, the Democrats, would lose because of the proposal. No. That wasn't the problem. [00:28:34] S8: It was that this would inject an issue and give, you know, the other party something to make noise about because they don't really have much else to make noise about. And do I think that that's going to ultimately decide the election? No. I don't. But what I think it will do is it will manipulate and take advantage of a lot of people's hard work and timing.
00:28:34 · Sean Scanlon, Erika Beras, Jeff Guo, Jasmine Dawson, Doris Gomez
[00:28:34] S8: It was that this would inject an issue and give, you know, the other party something to make noise about because they don't really have much else to make noise about. And do I think that that's going to ultimately decide the election? No. I don't. But what I think it will do is it will manipulate and take advantage of a lot of people's hard work and timing. [00:29:01] S2: Other organizers like Elen didn't agree with Sean's idea to hold the proposal until after the election. Elaine said they had told the citizens they published their ideas once they voted so they could be a part of the election discussion. [00:29:15] S3: In the end, Elaine and Sean and the other organizers held an emergency meeting. They also invited a handful of citizens. After some discussion, Sean basically backed down, and they decided to release the proposal before the election. [00:29:28] S2: And the citizens, they have decided to stop talking to the press. So we couldn't just go to any of the citizens we've been talking to. The citizens' assembly elected official spokespeople so that the group could all stay on message. [00:29:43] S3: It was almost like these citizens have started to act a little bit more like politicians themselves. [00:29:50] S5: Mhmm. [00:29:51] S2: The proposal was finally revealed this week at a press conference. [00:29:56] S1: Thank you media representatives and everyone watching us live, for being here with us today. [00:30:03] S2: Anzu. My name is One of the official spokespeople, Doris Gomez, kicked it off.
00:30:03 · Erika Beras, Doris Gomez, Jeff Guo, Riley Jano
[00:30:03] S2: Anzu. My name is One of the official spokespeople, Doris Gomez, kicked it off. [00:30:07] S1: I am proud to announce the release of the final report of the Connecticut Citizens Assembly on property taxes. [00:30:15] S2: No big fanfare at the State Capitol Building. No Sean flanked by citizens. In fact, Sean decided to not even show up, though he says he'll still support the proposal in the state legislature. In the final proposal, they had recommendations, including a 1% tax on earners who make more than $1,000,000 a year, a plan to consolidate school services for some districts, and a proposal to implement interstate tolls to reduce or eliminate car taxes. [00:30:44] S3: Riley Jano ended up being one of the spokespeople for the Citizens Assembly. He told us the citizens are proud and happy with their final proposals. But Sean, the comptroller postponing the announcement and that whole back and forth, that was not what they signed up for. [00:30:58] S11: It's almost rude to have all this work put in, all of... Everyone's aligned, and then at the last second to have them unilaterally change it. I I feel it undermines the entire premise of what we've done up to this point. [00:31:14] S2: Ellen says she's seen this before. Many of the citizens' assemblies that have been tried so far have run into this tricky step when these citizens' recommendations meet politics and politicians?
00:31:14 · Erika Beras, Helene Landimore
[00:31:14] S2: Ellen says she's seen this before. Many of the citizens' assemblies that have been tried so far have run into this tricky step when these citizens' recommendations meet politics and politicians? [00:31:28] S4: I think we considerably annoyed the citizens. I think there's no question. I think we lost a lot of goodwill and that they they... You know? But, anyway, this is what it is. It's kind of unavoidable when you are entering the political field where these proposals are gonna have to be exposed. Right? But my view has always been that we are not engaged in political calculations. We were trying to do something different that that takes seriously the view that citizens have a right to know what informed deliberative sample of them thinks on a very important issue. [00:32:05] S2: And that is the thing about trying to reinvent democracy. If you wanna do things in a new way, you still have to figure out how to do them in the old way. Basically, if you're getting into politics, you gotta be ready for all of the politics. Planet Money is doing a live show in Ireland, November sixth through the eighth at the Kilkenomics Economics and Comedy Festival. Yes. That is a thing. Yes. We will be there. Wish us luck. We'll be doing three different shows, two big stage shows, a smaller venue board game hangout. Find tickets at the link in the show notes or at kilkenomics.com. That's Kilkenny, the town crossed with economics. November sixth through the eighth in Kilkenny, Ireland. See you there.