00:14:22 · Jasmine Dawson, Jeff Guo, Erika Beras
[00:14:22] S5: It was very traumatic for me. That made me realize, like, oh, this is not gonna be as easy as I thought. [00:14:30] S3: Eventually, the citizens decided that in this assembly, they wanted the quieter, more shy people to participate. So they opted to follow basic kindergarten rules. You know, if you wanted to speak, you gotta raise your hand and you wait for your turn to speak. [00:14:46] S2: Once they reached a consensus on the rules, they moved on to the next order of business, learning about taxes. The organizers invited professors and government officials to hold sessions. It was like school, a new topic every hour or so led by a different expert. They sat through presentations, they got handouts, The citizens broke into small groups to discuss options and later reported back to the bigger group. [00:15:10] S3: They learned that state and local governments have a few different ways to raise money. States can have a sales tax, an income tax, various business taxes, while local governments rely mostly on property taxes. [00:15:23] S2: In Connecticut, people pay property taxes on their homes, but also on other property, like their cars. Jasmine remembered finding that kind of shocking when she moved to the state five years ago. [00:15:36] S5: That's kinda weird to me that no matter how old your car is, like, it could be a a hooptie or a beater, and you still have to pay a tax on it, which is Wow. Unfortunate. But, yeah, you just get taxed for everything here.
00:15:36 · Jasmine Dawson, Jeff Guo, Erika Beras, Bob Bailey, Helene Landimore
[00:15:36] S5: That's kinda weird to me that no matter how old your car is, like, it could be a a hooptie or a beater, and you still have to pay a tax on it, which is Wow. Unfortunate. But, yeah, you just get taxed for everything here. [00:15:52] S3: Connecticut has some of the highest taxes in the country. In particular, people pay more in the form of local property taxes. Other states do it differently. They raise more money through statewide taxes, like sales taxes or income taxes, and redistribute more of that money to towns and cities. [00:16:09] S2: Connecticut, though, not so much, which is why towns and cities, in order to pay for things like schools and services, rely so much on property taxes. [00:16:19] S3: Bob, the father of six, married to one, says he got really into learning about the various intricacies of tax policy. [00:16:27] S2: How much did you know about property taxes before you started? [00:16:31] S6: Very little. Very little. You know, now we've become tax policy nerds. [00:16:36] S4: Yes. Policy nerds. [00:16:38] S6: Well, you know, now you find yourself hunting for, for articles that are relevant. [00:16:45] S3: The citizens also learned how Connecticut is very fragmented. There are a 169 independent towns and cities in Connecticut, and nearly all of them have their own school districts. That's one reason public schools in Connecticut are some of the most expensive in the country. Each little school district is operating its own food and lunch program, its own bus network, its own special ed program.
00:16:45 · Jeff Guo, Erika Beras, Jasmine Dawson
[00:16:45] S3: The citizens also learned how Connecticut is very fragmented. There are a 169 independent towns and cities in Connecticut, and nearly all of them have their own school districts. That's one reason public schools in Connecticut are some of the most expensive in the country. Each little school district is operating its own food and lunch program, its own bus network, its own special ed program. [00:17:08] S2: All of this learning and reading was so that they could write a proposal for how to reform Connecticut's taxes. They collected ideas on how to lower property taxes. Like, maybe the state could create new taxes, modify existing ones, or reduce spending, or find efficiencies. They also had ideas on how to share the tax revenue fairly between the state and its, 169 cities and towns. They talked about many of the same ideas and questions that politicians in Connecticut had wrestled with for decades. [00:17:40] S3: And just like those politicians, Jasmine says the citizens of the assembly weren't all on the same page either. [00:17:47] S2: What were the things, like, that you were, like, not able to agree on? [00:17:51] S5: Goodness. I gotta pull some stuff up. Papa, can you pass me my my big binder? I I... We have a binder on all the things that... [00:18:00] S2: Like your special citizens assembly [00:18:02] S5: Yes. Binder. It's above the fridge. Sorry. Just give me... [00:18:06] S2: It's so official. [00:18:07] S5: Yes. So... Okay.
00:18:07 · Jasmine Dawson, Jeff Guo, Erika Beras, Bob Bailey
[00:18:07] S5: Yes. So... Okay. [00:18:14] S3: Jasmine took very detailed notes on all the different proposals they discussed. They discussed things like maybe Connecticut should put tolls on the highways. Right now, there aren't any. Or charge higher fees for out of state visitors to visit state parks. Or tax nonprofits like hospitals and universities more. Or maybe consolidate some of the school districts and the local services like snow removal or animal control. [00:18:39] S2: One of the most controversial ideas was a tax on super high earners. A millionaire tax like they have in Massachusetts, like they'd considered in New York City. [00:18:49] S5: And there were some folks that were not with it. There was one guy, he started talking about, if we vote on this, we'll end up like New York and be socialist. Like, thought it was funny, honestly. I I really thought it was hilarious, but he was really, really serious about it. [00:19:07] S2: How did everyone else respond? [00:19:10] S5: Well, there were mumblings. There were side conversations happening. I was like... [00:19:17] S2: Other people had issues with the idea of a millionaire tax. They said people would move out of the state to avoid paying it, or they'd find loopholes. [00:19:24] S3: Bob didn't wanna share a lot of the specific proposals they discussed. [00:19:28] S6: What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. So [00:19:32] S3: But he did say there was a lot of debate.
00:19:32 · Jeff Guo, Bob Bailey, Erika Beras, Stacy MacGyver, Jasmine Dawson
[00:19:32] S3: But he did say there was a lot of debate. [00:19:35] S6: Occasionally, someone will get up and propose something, and there will be some good natured, you know, snickering, at individual tables. Like, can you imagine if we did this or that? Or someone gets up and they've got a little bit of a strong rebuttal, and a lot of us will kind of chuckle and like, oh, Charlie's feeling himself today. [00:20:01] S3: Stacy, the occupational therapist who loves to talk to people, found that all of this conversation and debate about big topics led her to connect with all kinds of people. [00:20:11] S2: Have you made friends? Yes. Do you text each other? [00:20:16] S10: Are you gonna tell on me? No. It's almost like... Seems like a secret society, even though it's not what it is. We do text each other. Yes. [00:20:25] S2: It wasn't just Stacy. People in general started talking more in small groups, and not just about tax policy. [00:20:31] S6: A tradition has been ice cream at Ben and Jerry's. After one of the sessions, they are offered free ice cream, and so that's been a bit of a tradition as well. [00:20:40] S5: Well, I would say one of my people is, miss Arlene. She's an older woman. We bonded over our Caribbean backgrounds, and we always have lunch together.
00:20:40 · Jasmine Dawson, Jeff Guo, Helene Landimore, Erika Beras
[00:20:40] S5: Well, I would say one of my people is, miss Arlene. She's an older woman. We bonded over our Caribbean backgrounds, and we always have lunch together. [00:20:50] S3: Alen Landomore, the political scientist who studied ancient Greece, she's been in the room at these citizens' assemblies. And she says this is kind of exactly the natural arc that they tend to follow. People meet, and at first, they are wary of each other. They bicker. But pretty soon, they start helping each other, building on each other's ideas. And by the end of it, something magical happens. [00:21:13] S4: People who normally would hate each other across their screens, across party lines, across age differences, race differences, etcetera. When they are brought together in that way and are given proper conditions, enough time, etcetera, end up actually striking very deep friendships, gets the the the love dimension of politics. [00:21:38] S2: There's this idea from Aristotle that friendship and civic love are at the heart of politics. These days, it might feel like there's more partisanship, but Alain thinks these citizen assemblies are a way to bring love back into politics. [00:21:53] S3: After the break, Connecticut's citizens assembly reveals the plan that they came up with to solve the state's property tax conundrum, but not before these new friendships get put to the test.