Y Combinator Startup Podcast
00:05:54 · Aaron Epstein, Marvin Schwaibold
[00:05:54] S0: Yep. And previously, before joining Shopify, you were building your own product studio with Molly, and you have incredible motion and animations and interactions there Yeah. That I always found to be really inspiring. And maybe you can show us some of that and and talk through where that came from. [00:06:10] S1: Yeah. Molly was the... A studio... A design studio in Brooklyn that I was running together with J Tel, my studio partner. We ran the studio for about two years before joining Shopify and and integrating the studio into Shopify. [00:06:23] S0: And you had some huge clients that you worked [00:06:24] S1: with [00:06:24] S0: during [00:06:25] S1: the summer. Right? Yeah. We worked we worked a lot with with Collins and Apple and Google, and also a lot of smaller clients too. It was it was honestly a a broad mix of web design and product design and a lot of content strategy [00:06:35] S0: Mhmm. [00:06:35] S1: And hierarchy for for clients as well when it when it came to their websites. And because we were a small studio, it also allowed us to have extremely close relationships with our clients. We would meet clients weekly for many weeks and use these projects at Molly as, like, very high focused stints with these clients. So we never took on more than two or three clients at a time to stay really focused. Here's just a reel of some of the work we we were doing while we were while we were running our studio.
00:06:35 · Marvin Schwaibold, Aaron Epstein
[00:06:35] S1: And hierarchy for for clients as well when it when it came to their websites. And because we were a small studio, it also allowed us to have extremely close relationships with our clients. We would meet clients weekly for many weeks and use these projects at Molly as, like, very high focused stints with these clients. So we never took on more than two or three clients at a time to stay really focused. Here's just a reel of some of the work we we were doing while we were while we were running our studio. [00:07:05] S0: It's so cool. There's little details here. The animations are very organic. Yeah. And even as each screen changes, the the gradient and the shadow behind it changes to match the color of the background that I think a lot of people maybe wouldn't pick up on. Yeah. But it's something that you sort of intuitively feel Yeah. That something is happening here. Right? [00:07:24] S1: I... We we we we got this idea basically just from the ambient lighting behind behind TVs that are mounted on walls. And I think JTal, and this was pre AI, basically duplicated the video and had it, like, blurred out in the background so that it would match the the rhythm of of what's going on on the screen, and it and it works really nice. And I think what we... Before the sentence, it it it used to just say, Molly is a design studio in Brooklyn, and there was just the gradient at the bottom that was kind of, like, vibrating Right. [00:07:51] S0: I can see it changing
00:07:51 · Aaron Epstein, Marvin Schwaibold
[00:07:51] S0: I can see it changing [00:07:52] S1: thunder or something. Yeah. And it it kind of... At least for us, it always felt like people were, like, inclined to scroll into it. Mhmm. So we didn't even have to show them any of the work, but we kind of hinted at it. Yeah. And then you scrolled into the reel, and yeah, the rest are just very nice and simple carousels. But, yeah, you can see here this was some of the work we were doing with our studio. And I think some of the patterns you were referring to... We used to call the system or we call the system Primal. It's a way to just basically understand content on a website, digest content on a website. And for us, it was a very structured way of digesting when clients came to us with a lot of information for their websites. We helped them build that into a system on the website that allowed users to explore. To us, felt like the way we would build websites and you would flow through the website felt more like you were exploring the website Mhmm. Than the website was demanding your attention. Everything is just one layer away, everything and is progressively disclosed. So you never overwhelm the user with too much content in general. [00:08:52] S0: What are some of the ways that that you accomplish that?
00:08:52 · Aaron Epstein, Marvin Schwaibold
[00:08:52] S0: What are some of the ways that that you accomplish that? [00:08:54] S1: I mean, I can just go through some of the work. This was a project we did with with with the agency, Collins. Mhmm. And we worked with them for, I think, over a year on this on this website. And as you can see, even as you're scrolling through the homepage here, each section of the homepage is a chapter Mhmm. That as you as you as you interact with the website, can lead you into further exploration. So this is one of my favorite sections here. This is the the bookshelf. These are basically all of [00:09:20] S0: the case studies from Collins. Even go back and and hover over those elements again. The way they bounce feels different than what you typically see. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about how you made that. This was... You didn't use AI tooling to do this. You handcrafted these. Right?
00:09:20 · Aaron Epstein, Marvin Schwaibold
[00:09:20] S0: the case studies from Collins. Even go back and and hover over those elements again. The way they bounce feels different than what you typically see. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about how you made that. This was... You didn't use AI tooling to do this. You handcrafted these. Right? [00:09:35] S1: Yes. Well, in this case, I will I will say this was very much design and engineering partnered together. Mhmm. I would lay something like this out in Figma and and try to understand the spacing and the size and the colors and the rows and all of that. And then I would hand it off to someone like Jesper, who would then work on on, like, the bounce animation, for instance. Like, all these books have to level up on top of each other and then basically land one more time as the last book kinda lands on top of it. And that has to feel very organic because if that feels bouncy and organic, then it eludes at the idea of, oh, it's a book. It's a bookshelf that's that's alive. And those things, I think, while they are seemingly unimportant, are exactly the kind of little moments people pick up when they scroll through this kind
00:09:35 · Marvin Schwaibold, Aaron Epstein
[00:09:35] S1: Yes. Well, in this case, I will I will say this was very much design and engineering partnered together. Mhmm. I would lay something like this out in Figma and and try to understand the spacing and the size and the colors and the rows and all of that. And then I would hand it off to someone like Jesper, who would then work on on, like, the bounce animation, for instance. Like, all these books have to level up on top of each other and then basically land one more time as the last book kinda lands on top of it. And that has to feel very organic because if that feels bouncy and organic, then it eludes at the idea of, oh, it's a book. It's a bookshelf that's that's alive. And those things, I think, while they are seemingly unimportant, are exactly the kind of little moments people pick up when they scroll through this kind [00:10:19] S0: of website.... That matter? Like, you have a person Yeah. Who's supremely talented, whose entire job on this project was to make the tab interaction. Yeah. And it's very easy for anybody to go, well, just throw a tab. Tabs exist. You can get that for free in five seconds and then move on to the next thing. Why did you feel like it was important enough to spend somebody's dedicated time before AI could do this, certainly, and and have them focus just on that one interaction?