A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:32:32 · Rob
[00:32:32] S1: Like it's a very, it's , it's a refreshing approach simply, but, but it , it's , it's a very founder approach, right? Because you know the , you know, the , uh, the trap that you get into by trying to project one year. Now, what if somebody asked you for three year revenue growth? Like, it's just, you can't, nobody, like I I , nobody predicted this mobile world that we're in, right? So like, there was the web and then everybody had their predictions on the web and nobody really saw this handheld device that BlackBerry came out with or that the iPhone came out with. Like nobody saw that coming down the road like, or the implications of that. And so you're smack dab in there, it's 2007 Steve Jobs is up there releasing the iPhone, and, and you've got this plan, a three year plan. You can't be held accountable from that day forward because the world changed on that day. Same thing is happening today with ai and like , you just can't do that. We did this revenue without any of that. Now imagine if we had it. Like that's the thinking, right? Is that okay? I just need , I have four salespeople and it's done.
00:33:35 · Pablo Srugo
[00:33:35] S0: It's funny, it's funny, Rob, you know, here's, here's an example actually , concrete example, bootstrap business crew , a 2 million a RR and, and it was like, and we're bootstrapped and we're profitable and we're nine people and I've been doing all the sales. So imagine what happens when I hire , uh, a bunch of salespeople, which honestly legit a year later. So they started 2 million a RRA year later, you know how much a r they had 2 million, man. 'cause what happens when this founder doesn't sell is you don't sell <laugh>. That's what happened. And I , and I say that because there's a lesson there, which is like, you, you can't assume things without testing them .
00:34:13 · Rob, Pablo Srugo
[00:34:13] S1: It is a, it's a hard thing and especially because as a founder, you are probably the best salesperson. Hands down. You will not hire somebody in this stage of a company that can sell better. If you have the passion and you understand the business that you're in, you believe it, you, you breathe it, you bleed it, and the person you bring in will give up sooner, will say the wrong words, faster will not succeed like a founder succeeds. And even in the current business that I'm in is that we know that, that our CEO is the greatest salesperson that we have, like among other skills. But what you , what you end up forgetting is that as you're trying to scale, they become, they, they distance themselves from that skill and, and you are making it up like so now it's like four to one. I need four salespeople to do what one guy did before. And then when he comes back into the sales role, like stuff happens overnight. Like it's unbelievable. And you can't get that. [00:35:10] S0: It's almost like, you know, they tell you, they tell you shouldn't be working in the business, you should be working on the business. And I'm like, no, you should be working <laugh> in the business as long as humanly possible. You should do whatever's the hardest thing to do that you're best at. That's probably a thing you should be doing for as long as you can until it's truly breaking versus trying to kind of get ahead of it and infrastructure your way and and org chart your way into something that looks like a beautiful company on paper, right?
00:35:36 · Rob
[00:35:36] S1: Like , I'm gonna do it for the first 100 times. I'm gonna do it where it's unscalable. There's a lot of , uh, mechanical tur, it's, it's human. Like I'm sending the emails. So like if you get an email from me, it is coming from me, written from me at that moment and I'm doing the unscalable thing and I'm gonna test a whole bunch of different things as I go along. And then I'm gonna realize what does work because I'm gonna see a natural pull. I'm gonna see a lift because of the effort and it's just gonna tumble. And then I'm gonna say, okay, let's put that into a strategy, a playbook. We'll productize that and then I can hand it off when I feel very comfortable with the fact that I'm seeing that lift. Not because I'm pushing, but because I'm getting pulled and, and I need to know that. It's just when you learn how to water ski for the first time, like it's not hard to stand up on water skis. It's just not, but you can't pull, you have to be pulled , you have to go with the boat and most people pull right away and then they sink. So what you need to be able to do is you need to be able to get up, stand up , and then the whole thing has to pull you. And that's when you know that it's okay to maybe pull back a little bit and, and bring somebody else in to do that.
00:36:39 · Pablo Srugo
[00:36:39] S0: So the last one, just to wrap this up, which is the, the pivot one, right? Pivot harder, faster. I'm, you know, honestly like I'm a very impatient dude, <laugh>, and uh , you know , oftentimes the question with this one is like, okay, like when do I know if I should pivot, right? Like, I've been doing this thing, it's kind of working, it's kind of not my kind of hot take. <laugh> is , uh, just pivot like <laugh> , you know what I mean? Like, it just do it, it rips bandaid off. I, and I'm sure there's like, it's kind of wrong. Like I'm sure there are examples of when like when, you know , you shouldn't have, I'm not saying give up, do something completely different, but like change something material. You know, like if , if you've been doing it for an amount of months and like, it's almost like by the time you're asking yourself the question, because you start off with so much excitement, right? And you're kind of like, you're in it and you're like, things are gonna work and whatever, and you get some signals that things are working. And so you , you're probably gonna , if anything, it's, it's the same similar to an employee, right? Like by the time that you're like, I don't know if this person's really working out, maybe, maybe we should part ways, you probably should 80% plus of the time in startup world, like bigger company's different, but in startup world, just because there's a reason why you've gone there. And I'm not saying the employee's not good, I'm saying there's a fit issue, right? Um, similar with, with this product market fifties , like, you know, once you're seriously thinking about, I dunno , maybe I should pivot 80% of the time you probably should. And 80% of the time you probably don't. I
00:37:56 · Rob
[00:37:56] S1: I'm mixed on this because like , I I also believe that it's really easy to give up, right? Like the real thing, the challenge that I have with, with today is that platforms make it really easy to test something or to start a business. And then if it's too much work or if it's too much effort to find, to answer these questions, people just give up and they go to the next one and they go to the next one and they go to the next one. And it , and you can see that quite a bit in , in , uh, bit in some, some entrepreneurs where they've started a whole bunch of businesses. I talk to 'em all the time. Uh , it's just the nature of our business as well as like, oh , you know, I , um, I had to put my business on hold because like, it's easy to give up. It's very easy to give up. So there's gotta be a little bit of tenacity around, around the business idea. And, and that's where if you've done your research and the idea and you've been in market and you've talked to those people that are doing it, then, then the pivot shouldn't be a dramatic pivot or a give up. Um, and so, but you definitely have to be open to it. I, I just , uh, I I worry that some great ideas that take a lot of hard work get into the idea or get into the mind of a weak entrepreneur and they don't have the tenacity or the strength or the desire or whatever. It's the calluses to see that idea through and they're like, nah , I'm not interested. And then they go off and it doesn't get invented.