Dream Machines: Physical AI, Robotics, Being Human
01:08:19 · Charles Wong, Aravind Kandiah, Evan Helda
[01:08:19] S2: Right? So it's [01:08:19] S0: like, you wanna do it for domain specific testing, will need to evaluate it for your domain specific things, and you can't just evaluate it in real life across the thousand scenarios that you wanted to do. And every time a new update comes or a new, like, know, you just fine tune on the edge and you update the model, you still want to CICD your model. Right? So there will always be a need for testing simply because we're just deploying the systems into, like, the real world where real infrastructure, real lives are all at risk. Right? So for us... And we see that happening today as well. Right? Like, most of our customers actually use us for eval more than they use us for training. Right? So we're seeing that shift slowly [01:09:00] S1: That's fine.
01:09:00 · Evan Helda, Aravind Kandiah
[01:09:00] S1: That's fine. [01:09:00] S0: Where it's more eval centric. But to Charles' point, you know, everyone's like, okay. You know, if we can load up our world model, a world action model, and we do test time inference. Right? So we we roll up 10 different policies. And, you know, like, this is, approach one x takes as well. It'll be highlighted recently as well. But I think there's a there's a few problems there. One is taking a world model and running it at test time inference is crazy because you need to do 40 different rollouts in faster than real time on an edge device. What you will need is you will need an abstracted low resource, low compute, way of rolling out these scenarios. And if you have a three d representation that is low resource, low compute, you could actually roll out things much, much faster. Right? And we think that's a... It could be another thing, but that's, like, much, much further down the road. For us, like, the main thing is, like, focusing on evals. But if we could become that imagination engine, and that's like that that moonshot thing. Right? Imagination engine that can actually run on edge compute. That's a that's a thing that we're trying to work. And it's actually a tractable problem. It's just like, okay. When is the right time to get into that market?
01:10:20 · Charles Wong, Evan Helda, Aravind Kandiah
[01:10:20] S2: Yep. We believe it's a compute problem, and that compute problem will be solved eventually. Right? We are going to build that evaluation framework for robots to imagine whether they're, you know, plugged into an Ethernet cable and and, you know, interfacing or something else, or they're doing it on their own brains, the difference is just a a compute problem. Right? So we build a framework now. We build a great evaluation framework now. We, you know, we integrate all the latest models, you know, that all these labs are coming up with. Right? We create that easy test bit for any developer to, you know, quickly activate self learning on their own robots. And it's only a matter of time until robots get smart enough where you can actually just put in their own brains. So [01:10:58] S1: Very cool. I'm excited to see this this eval platform and product. So there's... I'm I'm seeing a lot of these eval products pop up. Before we wrap, I'm curious, how are you guys? And you... We've kind of danced around a little bit here. You've gotten the signal... Some sense of that. But what's gonna make your eval product different? And and then, you know, I'm I'm thinking about like the like the light wheels of the world. There's a few other companies like this. How do you think about really being differentiated as an eval platform? You [01:11:31] S0: will see in a month. [01:11:34] S1: It hasn't launched yet. Sorry. It's just launching in a month. Got it. [01:11:38] S0: Yeah. We're going live in a month.
01:11:38 · Aravind Kandiah, Evan Helda, Charles Wong
[01:11:38] S0: Yeah. We're going live in a month. [01:11:41] S1: Well, I think we should do a round two then after this thing is live, and maybe we'll do a live a live demo actually really cool if you guys are open to it. [01:11:48] S0: Yeah. That'll be cool. [01:11:49] S2: Yeah. Let's light that up. [01:11:51] S0: Yeah. But I think... We see the same as a gun. It's a whole bunch of eval platforms, but I think it doesn't solve the... One of the the main problems. But we will talk more about that maybe some other time. [01:12:01] S1: Okay. Yeah. Let's let's leave a little bit on the bone. Leave people wanting more. So final question. This is a great conversation, so I appreciate it. Excited to get this one out there. This is more of a philosophical question, and I'm on a holy mission to collect really good questions. And so I'm seeking not an answer, but a question here. And the question I'm seeking is, you know, as humanity faces this exponential takeoff, this this crazy era of change we're heading into, What do you think is the most important question that we should be asking ourselves to best prepare and and thrive in that future? And that that could be as individuals, as a society, either one. I'd love a I'd love a question from each of you if if you have one. [01:12:53] S0: I can go first. Sure. I'll have Charles if [01:12:56] S2: you Go ahead. I was just about to start, but you go ahead. Go ahead.
01:12:58 · Aravind Kandiah
[01:12:58] S0: Yeah. As if... So I think my answer may not be what you want to hear? But for me, dude, life's not that deep, man. It's like... First, like, do things you enjoy with, like, the people you enjoy with... Like, you enjoy their company with. I think, like, every technological revolution always scares people. Was it, like, agriculture? We have, like, that whole migration of workforce there, whether it was, like, computers. I think over time, it just frees us up to just do more things. But even now, like, all these AI agents coming out, people have become more busy managing the agents, which is crazy because the expectations of productivity have gone... Gotten higher. It's like, oh, last time your throughput was x, but with this AI agent, it needs to be 10 x. So therefore, you need to be more busy. So it's like, I need to go learn these additional tools as well. It was like, I think there will always be an evolution of what work means, but I think the constant throughout it all is just like, hey. Are you enjoying enjoying your time on this planet? Are you, like, you know, contributing to the relationships that you're building? Are you having fun doing it? Are you, like, giving back to your community? I think these are, the the base things that don't really change throughout time. It's, like, your tribe, your people, your relationships, and, like, how you experience life. So for me, it's like, don't I wanna go down the the route of becoming a a philosopher. The most of them are depressed. They think too much, and they ask too much deep questions. So for me, it's like, try to keep it simple. I
01:14:33 · Evan Helda
[01:14:33] S1: love that. I love that.