Decoder with Nilay Patel
00:39:33 · Nilay Patel, S0
[00:39:33] S2: and [00:39:33] S0: in the age of AI, that difference changes everything. Outshift by Cisco is building the Internet of Cognition, an open source foundation for building multi agent systems. Agents share context, memory, and guardrails to get excellent results from design all the way to production. So instead of simply passing messages, agents can build on each other's work and move towards shared goals. Read the paper, experience the demo, and grab the code from outshift.com. That's outshift.com. Support for the show comes from Framer. Framer is the AI website builder that helps creators, teams, and businesses ship production ready sites faster than ever while getting every detail right. Prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, agents and humans work in tandem. Agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment, and control. Agents solve the gap between AI generated ideas and production ready website work. The agent works in the same place where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. It lands on the canvas, stays editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Here's everything that can happen when your team and agents collaborate. You can build custom code components, optimize SEO settings, audit for issues, and ship everything all in one place. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/decoder for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/decoder. Rules and restrictions may apply.
00:41:12 · S5, S0
[00:41:12] S5: Why can't we get AI to production? Our competitors are all ready. [00:41:16] S0: How do [00:41:16] S5: we keep data secure? When do we actually see ROI? All this talk about AI, but talk doesn't transform businesses. AWS AI cuts through the noise, making AI easier to securely deploy and scale with ready to use agents and the broadest set of AI tools and services you can build, buy, or partner your way. Stop overthinking. Start building. AWS AI is how.
00:41:16 · S5, Nilay Patel
[00:41:16] S5: we keep data secure? When do we actually see ROI? All this talk about AI, but talk doesn't transform businesses. AWS AI cuts through the noise, making AI easier to securely deploy and scale with ready to use agents and the broadest set of AI tools and services you can build, buy, or partner your way. Stop overthinking. Start building. AWS AI is how. [00:41:49] S2: Do you see Tariffs as as mostly protectionist? I was in France earlier this year, and I I took an Uber and it was... I think it was a BYD seal. It's Chinese EV. And, you know, I asked the French Uber driver, how do you like this car? And he's very French, and he literally did the thing. He goes, he's really shit. Like, like, literally said... Like, I almost started clapping because it was, like, amazing. And he's like, if if they would... If the French government would just allow the Chinese government to sell these cars here, these companies would all be dead. In The United States, I think Jim Farley is the CEO of Ford, and he's running around saying the Chinese EVs are superior to American products. And it's the tariffs that protect our markets, protect our manufacturers. Because you could import the cars, you just pay such high tariff if they're economically infeasible. That's just pure protectionism. That goes against what you're saying, which is you need to protect your industry until their products are good enough to compete on the global scale. But we're not doing that with our car makers. We're just protecting them.
00:42:47 · Willy Shih, Nilay Patel
[00:42:47] S3: Yeah. And and there's a cost associated with that. So for example, one of the famous tariffs is a so called chicken tax. Okay. And I I talk about this in the book as well. And the chicken tax was... Resulted from this trade spat where basically what we do is we put tariffs on imported light trucks. Okay? And SUVs, are built on that platform. And it's one of the reasons the Detroit automakers have focused on SUVs and light trucks. That's that's their profit center because there have been tariffs on that and it's only been in the last decade or so where Toyota and Nissan and others have made more light trucks in The US. Okay. And Mexico for that matter. So that's one of the results of that type of tariff distortion. [00:43:37] S2: But but that's a policy victory. Right? Is Toyota, Nissan, and all the other foreign manufacturers are gonna make trucks in The United States? You've gotten some economic benefit and they can compete and maybe all the trucks are gonna get better.
00:43:48 · Willy Shih
[00:43:48] S3: You get some economic benefit, but, you know, one of the reasons the Detroit guys still make so many trucks and SUVs on those platforms is because they're more profitable, which says the price is higher than it might otherwise have been. Okay. But, you know, I do see the benefit of that. Although I had to say, I was walking around the Toyota factory in Georgetown, Kentucky. Okay. I'm walking around with the plant manager. And, I said, you're making sedans here. He says, yep. And, a lot of the Detroit guys have given up making sedans because they can't make any money. And I said, and you're using parts that mostly come from Kentucky and Ohio and Indiana and Alabama and Mississippi and Texas and some from Mexico and Japan, but mostly, you know, mostly domestic content. It's like, yep. And you're using American workers. He said, yep. And, I said, and you're using American made steel. Right? And I'm trying to get out of them. It's like, okay, look, I know American steel costs a lot more than imported steel because I've been in other factories that are still importing steel in spite of the steel tariffs because they still say it's still cheaper in Asia. Okay. But I said, you're using American made steel. I'm trying to get out of them. It's like, how much are paying for steel? Obviously, he's not going to tell me. But he does say, we have a strategic long term relationship with our supplier. Okay. And that tells you a lot, right? Which is, there are ways you can do these things. Okay. You have to work with your suppliers. You have to, you know, give them longer term arrangements, be less transactional, more strategic on things like that. So I mean, I think you can do it. Okay. But it really takes a comprehensive approach. Right? And it takes a more thoughtful approach.
00:45:43 · Nilay Patel
[00:45:43] S2: I understand the rationale for putting tariffs on foreign goods that undercut our markets. Right? You're just going to increase their cost and then maybe the consumer will buy the domestic product, and that's better for our economy. It just hasn't seemed to worked. Right? Like, I don't see Liberation Day as having done anything except generally raise prices on everything. We haven't actually remapped the global economy. And a lot of what you're describing is, well, the system is pretty resilient. The system was pretty resilient to COVID. The system was pretty resilient to an oil tanker getting stuck in the Suez Canal. The system has been pretty resilient to the war in Iran. The system has been pretty resilient to absolutely chaotic tariffs. Maybe some prices have risen, and I'm sure that we're gonna get listeners pointing out that all the prices have risen. It feels like the only thing the system isn't resilient to is the AI industry wanting every scrap of RAM that the whole world can produce. And so now there's not gonna be inexpensive cell phones. Right? Like, what it... What will push the system over the breaking point? Because globalization has seemed generally resilient to a bunch of people who kind of want it to be over.