The Big Tech Show
00:22:35 · Barry Ward, Adrian Weckler
[00:22:35] S4: Well, that might well be true, Adrian. That doesn't mean that you [00:22:38] S5: I never think it'll never... It's never gonna happen. I actually think when it comes down to it, when all of the positing and the legal jargon that that we all partake in is done, when the simple question is asked, is it worth it? I think most people will think it's not worth it.
00:22:54 · Barry Ward
[00:22:54] S4: They might not, but I think there is an overarching responsibility for government, for the state, for the the services within the state that are there to protect us to protect us. And if the only way they can do that is to cross that Rubicon into a situation where, you know, you're looking behind the curtain. I mean, otherwise, we're saying, well, the guardian should protect us with one tie behind their... Hand tied behind their back. And nor... And and this is always the problem with these things. So I'm a criminal defense lawyer, as you know. People often say to me, how do you defend guilty people? I don't defend guilty people. I represent people who are accused of crimes, and I genuinely believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty. But people never think of crime as the potentially falsely accused person. They think of themselves as a potential victim or their child or friend as as the victim, and therefore, they want to come down hard on the accused person. They never think of themselves as being in the seat of the accused person. As the same with this, you're approaching this from the point of view, well, I like my privacy, and I want my privacy. Therefore, there should be no reason why it should be interrupted. But what happens if you're the person that's being targeted by the criminal gang? Do you think then, rather than saying to me, what happens if your information is sold in the dark web, what happens if somebody's coming to get you and the state services can find out about that and protect you?
00:24:08 · Adrian Weckler
[00:24:08] S5: That... That's why I was I was, positing earlier on that this is a difficult choice, and it's one that society has thus far, ruled on in favor of privacy. But you raise a very interesting point, and that is the the the circumstances against which this happened. Like, if we were in Ukraine and we were being attacked the whole time, this might be a different discussion. I... Maybe the rights... The overall rights of encryption, they may or they may not be. They they may be much more important, or they may be less so if if it if it was a case of the survival of a nation. Is it just that our society has not been under such a terrible strain? I mean, we have problems. We have challenges, but we're not under the kind of existential danger where maybe a conversation like this will become more pragmatic.
00:25:00 · Barry Ward
[00:25:00] S4: And there's a part of me that hopes we never face that, obviously, because it... It's not worth it for for, you know, just to establish something like this. And I often say, like, we're incredibly lucky to live in Ireland. We are safe and secure here. It doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean we're always safe and secure. It doesn't mean there's no crime. But when you look at people... Ukraine is an example close to home, but look at people all over the world and the oppression they face from their governments, from, warlords, from authoritarian elements, from other countries, from cyberattacks, all the rest. And not... Again, not that we've never had a cyberattack in Ireland, but we live in a safe and secure environment in the way that most people in the world don't. And, I'm I'm not suggesting that we should throw that away by saying that everybody has absolute rights to privacy that should never be breached, but nor am I saying that we should throw away the notion of that privacy. I... As I said at the start, I hope privacy is a very important principle that is respected generally in Ireland, but there are some exceptions where the the the good of the the whole or the good of society or the good of the many outweighs the right to privacy of one individual.
00:26:05 · Adrian Weckler, Barry Ward
[00:26:05] S5: Just lastly before you go, the government does have the heads of a bill, which it hopes will become law at some point, probably next year at this point. It's called the communications interception lawful access bill. Do you know where we are with that generally? This is for the the minister for justice. [00:26:23] S4: Yeah. I know the cabinet approved the drafting of it last January, the January 20, and there is a process that then has gone through within the Department of Justice. It then goes to the Oireachtas Committee on Justice for what's called pre legislative scrutiny, and they'll have an opportunity to examine it then. And that'll be an interesting stage because when you get those heads of the bill, you will get experts in to look at it, see what they think about it, make their criticisms. You will have people who are against it, and you'll have people for it. And they will go back to the department with recommendations for what the final bill should look like. When we get it in the, then there's another process when we get to parse it and look at criticize it and accept it. [00:26:58] S5: So we'll have more discussions like that. [00:26:59] S4: We'll have much more discussion. And I'm looking forward to that. It is, as you say, it's an area of fraught with difficulty, but I think we have to approach it from the point of view that there are times when the good... The the the, I suppose, protection of the many outweighs the rights of the one.
00:26:59 · Barry Ward, Adrian Weckler, Joe Molloy, S2, S3
[00:26:59] S4: We'll have much more discussion. And I'm looking forward to that. It is, as you say, it's an area of fraught with difficulty, but I think we have to approach it from the point of view that there are times when the good... The the the, I suppose, protection of the many outweighs the rights of the one. [00:27:15] S5: Even if it opens it up to to to other to other individual. But listen. I take your point, and thank you very much for coming on to discuss that. Barry Ward, Fine Gael, TD for Dún Laoghaire. Adam Shanahan was on sound today. Gigi Clark produced. And I'm Adrian Weckler. You've been listening to or watching The Big Tech Show, and we'll talk to you soon. You've been listening to The Big Tech Show with Adrian Weckler, sponsored by Deel. Deel's not just another payroll platform. It's one your team might actually enjoy. HR, IT, and payroll together, finally. Visit deel.com/bigtech. [00:28:03] S1: Hey there. We are Indo Sport with me, Joe Molloy, and we [00:28:06] S2: have things like this. How do you support the IRA when they keep [00:28:09] S3: this money? No. It's just I support the IRA's cause to end British rule in Ireland, and I still believe there shouldn't be British rule in Ireland as an Irish person. Yeah. What I don't support and will never support is the killing of innocent lives on... No matter where. I just don't... I don't I don't agree with that, and I will never agree with that.