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00:07:27 · Tanmay Jain
[00:07:27] S2: Sorry. And to share to share an example, like, you know, I previously was at Canva, and that was a story where we actually had a super app, and they tried to spin out a a separate app and actually ended up coming back to bring it into the... You know, into one core app. And the reason behind that was, you know, compared to ElevenLabs, which is horizontal API focused, while Canva serves to be kind of the design tool for everyone and semi sort of horizontal, it is one product. And so they tried to spin out a version called, you know, Canva Stories focused on Instagram Stories. And the product was amazing. It won, you know, Apple Awards. It was beautifully designed. Very, very, you know, unique use case, which was very prevalent at the time, you know, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. But it just could never crack those acquisition problems. It could never crack the retention. It could never crack, you know, brand awareness. People came to an executive, woah. We want Canva. This is only a unique set. You know, this is a subset. And so because of that, it just never really took off. And so it takes a very unique and a very unique and very precise company structure to make this succeed. And the benefit as well is we now have two different testing grounds for a bunch of different things for two very different use cases. And so so often, I will go and test something or Jack will go and test something, and we'll swap notes. For example, you know, we're testing paywalls right now, and we're going through an exercise where I'm testing a couple of hypotheses. Jack's doing the same. And we're curious to see... Almost double or quadruple our surface area for learning.
00:08:47 · David Barnard, Tanmay Jain
[00:08:47] S0: And so just to be clear, Tanmay, you run the the the flagship app, the the 11... What's the... It it called just ElevenLabs? [00:08:54] S2: It's just called ElevenLabs. [00:08:55] S0: Yeah. And then, Jack, you run ElevenReader, which is the even more kind of consumer focus where you can upload a PDF and generate audio. A really cool app, by the way. I I... My my son and I have been playing with text to voice, and he was tinkering with wanting to build an app. And we went right to ElevenReader. I was like, oh, man. This is so good. So how do you all think about that kind of cross functional, like, not stepping on each other's toes, but, like, incorporating those learnings across both apps.
00:09:22 · Jack McDermott
[00:09:22] S1: Well, I think one thing that's been interesting for us is, like, we... We've actually had to intentionally kind of create a bit of space between the two apps. Because when you go into the App Store or the Play Store and you type in Eleven Labs, you might be expecting to get a specific result when when you're doing a branded search like that. And if you're trying to find an app that that allows you to turn anything into an audiobook, you might not actually be top of mind with with ElevenLabs. But so we... We've tried to really intentionally create our own brands and our own kind of look and feel for each app, but we share like a common design system, a common set of technologies. A lot of our developers have have worked on on both apps by now and have a lot of experience between the two. And then have a few others that that are kind of in the test phase or in a a small bet right now that we're incubating. So I think it's just being very clear about the role of each app and the role of each audience that you're trying to serve and and being smart about, like, to what extent do you have to disintermediate or pull... Kinda pull the two apps apart and and run them both. And I'd expect that we'll build and launch a lot more as we go forward too.
00:10:29 · David Barnard
[00:10:29] S0: And how do you think about growth when... With the two separate apps? You know, I'd imagine you're doing some ads and growth focus things very specifically for the reader app, which does have that very different kind of use case and product promise. And then with the the main ElevenLabs app, I imagine you're doing very separate things, but then and then you can kind of, like, as a brand also kind of be the text to voice company. So, yeah, how do you how do you think about growth across both apps and the brand?
00:10:57 · Jack McDermott
[00:10:57] S1: There's a couple of shared parts that that I think underpin both of the apps growth. Right? One is, like, from a fundamental building block level, we we share a lot of the same technologies. Right? So when it comes to, like, having to stand up on a database, an MMP testing tools, these are a lot of the the shared parts of the apps that we can kind of lend and... On the move together. So when it comes to to growth, we can also lend a lot of things between the two apps. So creating great UGC content to be able to to boost on paid or to be able to post on on organic, a lot of times those creators or agencies are are doing a lot of the same things across a variety of brands. And we can kind of pick and choose what what seems to be working well on the other. Or I think a good example is in in the MMP world. Right? Like, being able to map and define specific events between apps that show the greatest amount of signal. Even though the the the underlying use case of the app is gonna be different. So that... That's where I think it starts to change is really, you know, when you think of a retention and engagement and monetization, that's where we we diverge quite a bit is that you you have to build specifically to that use case and to that that audience. One of the
00:12:14 · Tanmay Jain, David Barnard
[00:12:14] S2: things that this affords, and this came from... You know, this came up in the super app conversation versus, you know, separate apps is we were really able to tailor paid plans or monetization directly to the value that that ICP or that user seeks. So when we think about ElevenReader, they don't think in terms of credits and tokens when it comes to, you know, a listening or a consumption focused app. So, you know, Jack was able to really align the costs to an hours sort of experience and a consumption focused experience versus in ElevenLabs. The flagship app, it's very, very creative focused, and users to our benefit have been trained and primed to learn about credits and characters and all these sort of different, you know, digital economies. And so by separating out, we were able to really basically get licensed to go and try out a variety of different pricing and packaging in a really, really unique and useful way. [00:13:04] S0: Since we're on the the topic of user acquisition, I am curious about how y'all think about running paid UA and kinda building the the engine of growth. And I know you'll you'll use a lot of really polished videos. I I heard another podcast that one of your colleagues was on that you even hired a motion designer specifically to get that kinda earned media that that is these kinda big launches, but then you kind of trying to build a paid UA flywheel that runs continuously while also doing these kind of big launches. So tell me about how you how you think about those things and then how you actually execute.