00:42:29 · Ademi Adeniji
[00:42:29] S2: Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to take a stab at that. So I think there's an interesting margin or boundary between what the capabilities of our learning systems are. And then like, what are the sort of real world incentive structures and sort of like extrinsic or externals that would lend themselves to generating these datasets? Right. So that could be like, for instance, researchers come together and say, we're going to do an open source initiative. We're going to give people lots of these classes. We're going to have like this pool dataset, sort of like what we saw with TeleOp. And then we're going to basically like establish a benchmark so that people can train models. And then the best model is sort of like, distributed around and like people try and improve this over time. Like, I think that that would be great. Right. And I think like folks are already working on this today. There's folks at Meta working on this. There's folks like, I'm in academia that are actually working on these sorts of things. I think like there's also interesting sort of commercial legends that you can take on this where, you know, the, the ask for someone to wear these glasses is like very low, right? Compared to maybe like more traditional approaches or even like the last generation of like sort of robots in the world where they had to be pre programmed by someone. Someone had to know how to program a robot to get them to be useful. Now it's, Hey, do your normal job or do whatever you were doing before, but what are these classes? And then everything else after that is sort of like a data driven system. So I think if you can tie data collection to some application, some incentive where people are maybe going to be able to just do what they normally do and have that data feedback and improve aspects of what they're already doing via robots that are operating in amongst them and learning from them. I think that's also a virtuous sort of data flywheel that you can build. Right. And your incentives are there. They are aligned now. I think there's a lot of different ways you can come at it. But I think our job as researchers here was to paint this picture of what you can do at the limit of ergonomics. And we're hoping to create more buy in from the rest of the research community around, like, this particular form factor for for collecting.
00:44:51 · Michael Cho, Vincent Liu
[00:44:51] S0: Got it. I'm curious, like... I mean, I've never tried the Aria glasses. It may... Does look like there's a big box here. I'm sure the future versions are gonna improve, but how many hours... Can you wear it the whole day? Is it is it, like, similar to the Ray Ban kind of glasses, or they're still kind of heavy? [00:45:05] S1: I wanna say they ran out of battery after recording after maybe a couple hours. [00:45:10] S0: Oh, so so that's the limitation to the battery. I see. [00:45:13] S1: Yeah. I mean, we recorded, like, sections of data much much shorter than that, but I think it was something... It wasn't like a whole day for sure. [00:45:19] S0: Got it. But it's... At least from... In terms of ergonomics, it was never a bottleneck. Right? You you never feel like... It's not a wearing FIAL glasses like a Quest, you know? After a hundred hours, you need to take it out. Okay. Okay. Cool. [00:45:30] S1: They actually feel like just normal glasses. They're like little... The frames are thicker, but they just feel like normal glasses. That's awesome. Cool. [00:45:37] S0: Yeah. I was
00:45:37 · Michael Cho, Vincent Liu
[00:45:37] S0: Yeah. I was [00:45:37] S1: also gonna add maybe to a Demi's thing, like, emphasis on the alignment of incentives. But I think like a cool, like one way to do that in a, I guess, in between both options that Demi mentioned would be maybe if you had, if there was a world in which glasses were like the intermediate embodiment of AI and you know, you could wear them and you have like your it's like the Ray Ban thing where you have like assistants in there and stuff. And so while people are wearing them and recording things, like they would also get utility out of them. I think that'd be a pretty difficult, probably cultural trend that you'd have to crack. But then everyone be wearing them. Right?
00:46:11 · Michael Cho
[00:46:11] S0: Yeah. I mean, you know, I I live in Singapore, so so Ray Ban... The metal Ray Ban is not so yet, but I I have a two metal Ray Ban because I I love the idea of so much, but they actually haven't turned on the Meta AI in Singapore yet. But when I'm US, I I will use it. Right? Like, it's it's... I find it just so useful to have a assistant Mhmm. And then, you know, have a camera can see what I'm saying. And so I I think that's... Mean, I whether it's meta and all this, they will all have some kind of form factor that's basically cameras on the head. So it's it's just so easy. Like, I find that taking off the phone is just too difficult. It's too too troublesome. Maybe it's first world problem, the fact that I have a decent phone. But, I I mean, the ergonomics is just so easy. I just speak and then... And I ask, and I think have they... Having the utility just will will get a lot more people to wear these kind of smart glasses. And once society accept, okay, you are just by default turning on the record anyway to let your AI see, so must must have just press record and then contribute to it, to a new dataset. So I can totally see that kind of future. Yeah. Then maybe you don't even need to incentivize, like, pay people to do it. Like, you know people would just want to have a device on their head for utility, you know, reasons.
00:47:25 · Ademi Adeniji
[00:47:25] S2: Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly. I think I think the general concept of an ambient artificial intelligence is really exciting. Also there's a lot to think about there too. If you're operating within the world, there's maybe privacy asterisks around all of these things. Yeah. I think as far as incentives go, I think maybe the way to start is to think about what is the natural end of the AI system you would build on top of this sort of data. So in this case, we're moving towards generalist manipulation. That's sort of like the, the North Star. Right? And so, you know, what are maybe... Who are stakeholders or people that would benefit from this sort of data and these sorts of models? Right? And then they in turn would be incentivized to collect the data because the outcome or the output of whatever is being built is sort of like, is benefiting them already. Right. Like I think, and then also there, you're worrying less about privacy because there's like, I guess a common understanding between the technology user and the technology developer about what are like sort of the parameters of the use of the data. Right. Yeah, well, I think the ambient AI direction is maybe something really cool for the future. I think there's some practical maybe roadblocks there in terms of privacy and other things.
00:48:51 · Vincent Liu, Michael Cho
[00:48:51] S1: Yeah. I'm gonna add to that, like a cool a cool direction would be, you know, if if home robots, home humanoids were like even somewhat capable, it's like the cell could be that all you do is put your glasses on. And if you do stuff in your house, your robot will end up learning them from you as well. So it's like a very nice way to sort of transfer, like, human intelligence through, like, this ambient intelligence into, an embodied intelligence. [00:49:15] S0: Yeah. I mean, I I'm definitely... Maybe maybe it's a minority if I saw so I have devices like this. Right? Like, you know, basically, just record what I'm talking and then just transcribe. So I I I mean, I... Like I said, I got a bunch of ray... Metal ray bands. So I I... But I believe I'm the 1%, maybe. My wife thinks it's very creepy, so I don't use it anywhere near her. Right? So and she definitely don't allow me to, like, you know, film when my kids around, you know, privacy. So so even at home. Right? So I think I... Yeah. There's all these social constraints for sure. I do have a question, like, jump... Jumping back to the earlier chart about teleop. Right? Do you think there's a version of the world where... Let's say, okay. Something like this. I take your point. Okay. Maybe this is gonna scale way better than something like DexUMI. How about tally op data, though? Like, do you think there would still be a role for, like, tally op data with with real robots to kinda do maybe the last mile, maybe co training.