Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:15:49 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jen Abel
[01:15:49] S0: Contract. [01:15:50] S1: That's like corporal language paper. [01:15:52] S0: So interesting. Okay, papering review. Okay. Step 13, papering procurement process. [01:15:57] S1: Yes. So this is where ... We talked about this. We merged that conversation. This is when you are getting the procurement lead and that legal lead on a live call to work through the questions or the things you cannot accept. Now remember, if they give you their paper, there's going to be a lot in there that you're going to need to- [01:16:19] S0: Redline. [01:16:19] S1: ... redline. They're expecting that. They're just giving you the kitchen sink, right? If they ask for $10 million of liability insurance, as a smaller company, you can push back and be like, "Listen, your exposure with what we're doing is not that high," or maybe it might be and you need that. But they're going to give you the kitchen sink, know that it's all negotiable, but- [01:16:39] S0: Don't be afraid. [01:16:41] S1: ... pick your battles. Pick your battles. [01:16:42] S0: Yeah. Don't be afraid the deal will fall apart if you see something in there initially. [01:16:44] S1: Yeah, no, no. At this point, the deal will not fall apart. You just need to work closely with them to make sure they understand where you're coming from. That's more what it is. [01:16:52] S0: Okay. And the final step, signature. Ta-da. Anything special other than signing?
01:16:52 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jen Abel
[01:16:52] S0: Okay. And the final step, signature. Ta-da. Anything special other than signing? [01:16:58] S1: No, this is the really exciting point, which is just figuring out who the signatory is before it goes routed for signature, so that make sure your internal client knows, you know, because sometimes it's the CFO. It's not the executive sponsor. And you just want to make sure everyone knows who that individual is, because if there's a delay, you just want to make sure they get pinged. [01:17:22] S0: Damn, we did it, Jen. We did it. We got through all the steps. We just signed a massive contract. Congratulations. Let's go. Steak dinner, champagne. I don't know what salespeople do when they close a deal. Ding a bell. There's bells often. [01:17:34] S1: You know what we do? Okay, what's the next one? That's it. Because you are in sales, you're only as good as your pipeline. [01:17:47] S0: So fun. It must be the best feeling after all this- [01:17:49] S1: It is, but then you're like, "Oh, now ..." Literally, the feels is like five minutes and you're back to work. [01:17:56] S0: Yeah. And I imagine part of this is also, "How do we expand this deal?" [01:18:00] S1: 100%. [01:18:02] S0: Is there anything there, just real quick, just how to start thinking about where this goes once the deal is signed?
01:18:02 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jen Abel
[01:18:02] S0: Is there anything there, just real quick, just how to start thinking about where this goes once the deal is signed? [01:18:07] S1: Yeah. And this is where I think the expansion comes in. You either know the products that they can expand into. You've been through this journey before and that's pretty straightforward. But if you are early in the journey and you're closing your first 10 enterprise customers, you need the founder involved once these people are in to understand, "What part of the product is custom to what these people need and do we want to build out? Do we want to charge for services?" Again, here's the other thing too, services, and I know every company is an ARR recurring revenue focus, but services is still the largest line item in budgets. [01:18:47] S0: And so you're saying it's okay to offer services- [01:18:50] S1: It's okay to offer- [01:18:51] S0: ... as a part of this? [01:18:51] S1: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [01:18:53] S0: Yeah. This has come up a number of times, I think with Jason, also, Lemkin and you just like the increasing ... There's a rise in services being a part of software companies. [01:19:03] S1: [inaudible 01:19:03] how to buy. So they know how to buy. They're so used to it. Consultants, lawyers, you name it. There's always budget for services.
01:19:03 · Jen Abel, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:19:03] S1: [inaudible 01:19:03] how to buy. So they know how to buy. They're so used to it. Consultants, lawyers, you name it. There's always budget for services. [01:19:16] S0: Yeah. We talked about this last time, so we won't get too deep into it. Something else I wanted to ask you at the end here, say you're a buyer and say you're talking to Jen and you're just not sure this is a fit, you don't want to disappoint, you don't want to drag you along. What are some things that people buying software products, working with a salesperson, how should they communicate? What should they be saying to avoid disappointment? [01:19:41] S1: Yeah, I would say, as soon as humanly possible, explain why the timing's not right. It usually comes down to timing or why they're not mature enough to be able to be in a position to ... It's interesting. Your organization and the team has to be structured in a way to bring on the technology. There's a maturity you have to go through. I know we talked about this before where sometimes it's easier to sell the service first and then do the technology and counsel them towards the technology. But if your sales maturity in the enterprise is further down the road, you want to start with selling the technology versus the services. [01:20:20] S0: And if you talk about how it's not the right timing or not mature, I imagine the salesperson will try to prod you and push you to see if maybe you're not ... So it's okay to just tell them what you think, "It's not the right time."
01:20:20 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jen Abel
[01:20:20] S0: And if you talk about how it's not the right timing or not mature, I imagine the salesperson will try to prod you and push you to see if maybe you're not ... So it's okay to just tell them what you think, "It's not the right time." [01:20:32] S1: But you know what you can get. I've had clients say to me, "Hey, I don't know if we're in a position to do this," and I've straight up said to them, "You are a liability not closing this gap." And sometimes they just need to be like ... Again, you need to know if you're in a position to be able to say that, "But listen, I know you need this. I know you need this. I'm not accepting no as an answer. How do we figure this out together?" Because again, use the intel they've given you towards that. [01:21:03] S0: And interestingly, you're talking to a lot of their competitors and you would think you have insight into, "Okay, here's what everyone else is doing in this space."
01:21:03 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jen Abel
[01:21:03] S0: And interestingly, you're talking to a lot of their competitors and you would think you have insight into, "Okay, here's what everyone else is doing in this space." [01:21:11] S1: No, exactly, or like, "Hey, listen, on our first two calls, you told me how important this is. Did that change?" "No, we're just in a weird spot." I'd be like, "Okay, listen, here's what we're going to do. Let's start it a little bit smaller. Let's get in. You admitted that this is something that you guys need. I know that we are going to crush it for you. I don't want X to get in the way of that. "And then obviously, there's going to be the cases where it's like, "It's just not the right time." They might be going through an acquisition and bringing on net-new vendors is just not a priority right now and you just have to respect that too. [01:21:54] S0: I love how this whole process, a lot of listeners of these podcasts are product managers, product people, it just feels very product-y and product manager-y in terms of the organization and the step by step and just staying on top of all these little things. It's so interesting how you don't think sales and product management are at all alike, but they're so similar and it's just like you being human, the way a PM tries to understand what your pain points are, "We're here to solve them." Yeah, unexpected. We did it, Jen. We did it. We're going through it all. Is there anything else? Anything else we haven't touched on? Anything else you want to, I don't know, leave listeners with before we wrap up? [01:22:33] S1: We gave them a lot.