A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:23:19 · Rob Woodbridge, Lee Silverstone
[00:23:19] S2: This is every startup cliche I've ever heard all so far. It’s the best. [00:23:24] S1: Yeah, it's all together. Yeah, and we were just – we would print off these letters. I think we actually had a printer. We would print off these physical letters. We would put their logos on the top. We'd walk into the gym, 3D printed pin, or whatever we had. We would talk to the owners, these owners, and we would say, wouldn't it be cool if it'd go off on this pitch about how we're going to automatically track everything. If I think back and, and remember on it, I think we were – we made all of the mistakes that you shouldn't make. Every single mistake that you could make we made, which was – wouldn't it be cool. If not, hey, we're going to solve a real problem for you. How much would you pay for it? Is this a real pain point? Do you think about this every single day? Doing real customer interviews, we were just, wouldn't it be cool if – and on top of that we were like, would you just sign this thing? We need it for fundraising. We want to go raise money to build this thing. If you sign it, it will help us do that. We're like, sure, we'll help out these two 20 something year old kids, 21-year-old kids. Letters of intent, I think, generally speaking, don't carry a lot of weight in my opinion. I'm sure some people disagree with me, but I don't think they do. Then made them even less knowledgeable because we got people to sign them under the worst pretenses. They were meaningless.
00:24:44 · Pablo Srugo, Lee Silverstone
[00:24:44] S0: Well, I remember --, Specifically, the one I remember was this one and it – these were city gyms. City run gyms, these people have no incentives to change their gyms. This is a gym that's a club. It's got a skating rink and a basketball gym, all these other things, which are just completely meaningless to us. We walk in. We meet the manager. Hey, how's it going? Lee would've called before, set this up. Pablo, Lee, whatever, we're building this thing, and he would start telling us about his gym. Let me give you a tour. Sure, we're just playing along because we have one goal. It's just signature, dude, signature. We're like, yeah, we would track reps, and weight, da, da, da. He's like, a lot of people skate here. I was like, dude, we'll track skating. I remember that. We'll track skating. Why not? And Lee would just be the one that say we'll track it. Funny. [00:25:37] S1: About that. [00:25:38] S0: Just like anything that they would ever – what about like these random like noodle looking things that you like? Dude, we'll track it. Why not? [00:25:46] S1: Oh my God. I cried laughing. I forgot about the tracking skating. That’s so funny. [00:25:53] S0: No matter what, the person would say the level of interest, if it was zero, we'd still just pull it out. Listen, I get that you're probably not because I get that you're probably not going to buy this. It's totally fine. I'm just trying to fundraise. It'd be really nice if you could just sign this thing. Take a look at it.
00:25:53 · Pablo Srugo, Lee Silverstone
[00:25:53] S0: No matter what, the person would say the level of interest, if it was zero, we'd still just pull it out. Listen, I get that you're probably not because I get that you're probably not going to buy this. It's totally fine. I'm just trying to fundraise. It'd be really nice if you could just sign this thing. Take a look at it. [00:26:12] S1: They’d literally be that's the worst idea. There's no value in that. We don't want that for this gym. Our only concern – and the crazy thing is in those interviews they would tell us real problems they had. They would actually divulge this real customer info of hey, here's actually my problem. Tracking's not that interesting to people. It's really interesting. We were like, okay, cool. You're an idiot. We don't care. Sign this letter. We're going to build tracking. You don't get it. [00:26:38] S0: You don't get it. [00:26:39] S1: You don't get it. You don't know your business. We know your gym business better than you do. Yeah, and I think that's a trap of this horrible customer discovery, doing customer discovery the complete opposite way of what you should actually be doing. Again, building this all or nothing system versus building this incremental stuff that could actually provide value to customers.
00:26:39 · Lee Silverstone, Pablo Srugo
[00:26:39] S1: You don't get it. You don't know your business. We know your gym business better than you do. Yeah, and I think that's a trap of this horrible customer discovery, doing customer discovery the complete opposite way of what you should actually be doing. Again, building this all or nothing system versus building this incremental stuff that could actually provide value to customers. [00:27:05] S0: I touched on this before because obviously when you tell it, like the way we're telling it, makes it sound like we're completely stupid <laugh>. What are we doing? There was a driver, right, which was, man, we just wanted to be founders so badly. We just wanted to have a company so badly, which goes all the way to starting that whiteboard. It was just methodically trying to force fit and just push out a company. The closer you get to that and the more you invest in it, the less you want to hear anything that's going to tell you maybe this is not the thing. I'm committed. I'm in. We were just finding ways to validate what we were already going to do. We just didn't want to get stuck having to come up with another idea because It sucks being in that stage of what are you guys doing? Oh, I don't know. We're just like exploring ideas. We're exploring, okay, what is that?
00:27:05 · Pablo Srugo, Lee Silverstone
[00:27:05] S0: I touched on this before because obviously when you tell it, like the way we're telling it, makes it sound like we're completely stupid <laugh>. What are we doing? There was a driver, right, which was, man, we just wanted to be founders so badly. We just wanted to have a company so badly, which goes all the way to starting that whiteboard. It was just methodically trying to force fit and just push out a company. The closer you get to that and the more you invest in it, the less you want to hear anything that's going to tell you maybe this is not the thing. I'm committed. I'm in. We were just finding ways to validate what we were already going to do. We just didn't want to get stuck having to come up with another idea because It sucks being in that stage of what are you guys doing? Oh, I don't know. We're just like exploring ideas. We're exploring, okay, what is that? [00:27:58] S1: I think to our defense, I know we're telling these funny stories, but I think to our defense we did really believe at the time if we build it, they will come. Our belief was people just didn't see it. They couldn't understand it. Once we built it, all of these customers would magically appear. We would build this amazing system that everyone would have to buy it. We'd have all this customer pull. I think to a certain extent it wasn't only just, hey, we want to be founders. I think we did also buy into this story that we're going to build this amazing thing and all of a sudden customers appear.
00:28:33 · Rob Woodbridge
[00:28:33] S2: You know what? That's a really important part though because visionaries, people who reinvent the future or invent the future, I would say don't listen to their customers. Steve Jobs is obviously famous for saying that if you want to invent something that people use, don't listen to your customers. That's evolutionary versus revolutionary. In the back of your head, you had to have been thinking, they don't get it. This is the future. They're just on this path. We're going to move them onto this path, which is the Trex, or sorry, the Gymtrack path. This is where we're going. They don't see it. Many times you have that train of thought that happens, that pulls companies through. I'd say 99.9% of them don't materialize into something. For every one apple you have, you have a thousand or a million other companies that didn't invent the future. That's what's appealing about it. You got two young guys that seemingly more and more, as you say, Pablo, believe and believe and believe in the idea, believe and believe and believe, and then get completely invested. There's no going back now. Believe the story that they're telling. I mean it's infectious. It really was. I think that that's the story that you guys were able to tell, but then you built it.