00:08:59 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:08:59] S0: haven't marshaled it [00:08:59] S1: yet, John. It's a lot of money. Yeah. They're working on it. It's half a trillion. But but but SSI, at least at least like the the the rumors or the memes around it have been very much have been more focused on let's advance the research. And maybe that next phase of research is not purely compute bound. It's not it's not purely, hey, we're in this scaling race. We're gonna build a bigger transformer. That's that's honestly a little bit of what Elon's been He's saying, like, we have the transformer architecture. We're gonna scale this up a ton. And and where we are great is building a massive cluster, the Colossus, 100,000 [00:09:36] S0: Yeah.
00:09:37 · John Coogan
[00:09:37] S1: GPUs. We'll build it faster, and we'll get it up to speed, and we'll train it. And in three months, when most people would think it would take a year, we haven't been seeing that from SSI. S s s we haven't seen, oh, SSI has tents with GPUs in it. That that's their that's their edge. Yeah. The the the edge with SSI, as it's been pitched at least, has always been foundational research progress, just making making progress on on the underlying research that might be an elegant solution that increases the efficiency, and you get a better model with even less GPUs. But if they need a ton, Google will have them because they're investing more in CapEx more than ever before. While talking while taking a question on agentic capabilities, it sounds like Sundar said this, when we built our series of 2.5 Pro models, it's the direction where we are investing the most. That's definitely exciting progress, including in the models we haven't fully released yet. Long answer on agentic progress. The good news here is that we are making robust progress. We think we are at the frontier here. He said that they he said they have projects running internally, but now they are slow and expensive. They see the potential and are making progress on both. Gemini has a deep research product, which I would call an agentic product. Yeah. The question is, are they going to try and match what ChatGPT launched with agent mode sooner than later? Is there a security or a risk thing? Google's been a little bit more hesitant to just throw stuff out in the wild, but they're moving very quickly. And I think they will probably be able to get something up. There's certainly nothing on the CapEx or or model capability side that would stop them. And Elon Musk just says, wow.
00:11:11 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:11:11] S0: Well, Elon is playing the enemy of my enemy is my friend. [00:11:16] S1: It's like, I I love these guys. Yeah. [00:11:18] S0: Love to see it. [00:11:19] S1: It's not a it's not a knockout drag out fight. So, let's go over to Oh, this is interesting. So Michael Nathanson of MoffettNathanson, who's been on Stratechery a few times in the Wall Street Journal was quoted, what people worry about is just the math around search. Isn't AI going to be negative to search? And they went out of the way many times on the call to say, that's not what we're seeing. And so there's this big question on can can Google avoid disruption by integrating the new disruptive technology, artificial intelligence in a way that doesn't destroy their core business which is search ads. They're putting up 80,000,000,000 [00:12:01] S0: in revenue a year on it. My personal feeling is that Chrome specifically is just so unbelievably sticky. Yeah. As long as it takes the average person to to, you know, hitting hitting two buttons to get to the point where they can do any type of search, Google will continue to dominate. Because right now I can hit command t Yep. Search something quickly. Yes. I'm sure I could update the default like search Yep. To something else, but I haven't. [00:12:33] S1: There was [00:12:33] S0: a And I love the model. [00:12:34] S1: There was a time when I bounced around. I remember having Opera installed and Firefox installed for a while. And then for the last decade, it's just been
00:12:34 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:12:34] S1: There was a time when I bounced around. I remember having Opera installed and Firefox installed for a while. And then for the last decade, it's just been [00:12:41] S0: I used to love there was a moment, like, probably five years ago that I was loving Safari. It was just so snappy and fast and simple. [00:12:48] S1: I believe it's also built on Chromium. But, yes. Course. But it's not a Google product, so they so they could in theory reroute reroute No. [00:12:57] S0: Safari is not built [00:12:58] S1: Oh, it's not? [00:12:58] S0: On Chromium. Interesting. Uses Apple's own web kit
00:12:58 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Alex Hawkinson
[00:12:58] S0: On Chromium. Interesting. Uses Apple's own web kit [00:13:01] S1: rendering Okay. Do I do like so it's weird. I use I use Safari on my phone and Chrome on my desktop, which feels like it totally breaks the continuity. Right? But I've just I've just kinda stuck with that and it's been fine and I don't have like tabs that float in between. They're kinda separate, but it's fine. Really quickly, this show is brought to you by Restream. One stream, 30 destinations, multistream, and reach your audience wherever they are. We love Restream. You can sign up for free. So let's go over to, Ben Thompson talking about Google earnings. He has said, I've repeatedly laid out the theoretical case for why AI is potentially disruptive to Google, and we asked him about this when he came on the show. My question was, like, is there a world where where revenue and profit from from generative AI products is actually not as counter positioned against Google in the sense that, like, if they had launched the Gemini app first and become the ChatGPT, they'd probably be seeing a drop in search volume, but then also seeing revenue spike from an even more popular Gemini that's monetizing even better. And and was it a question of them just, like, not being able to take that pill, or or was it more about, like, the risk in PR nervousness than [00:14:16] S2: The thing that Ben
00:14:16 · Alex Hawkinson, Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:14:16] S2: The thing that Ben [00:14:17] S0: said that stood out That stood out to most, the most to me, and I'll probably butcher it a little bit. But he effectively was saying like, it's really hard for companies to change who they are. Yeah. When you look at Google's mission statement to organize information and make it universally accessible and useful, that is so deeply aligned with AI. Yep. It's like what does ChatGPT do? Like organizes information and makes it useful. Right? Agents like ChatGPT agent is making that information useful. [00:14:46] S1: Yep. [00:14:48] S0: And so it just feels like, again, like generative AI is, like, deeply aligned with the core mission. And so it's easy to see, you know, them continuing to win here. [00:14:56] S1: Yeah. I I I think the the problem is is, like, the like, disruption comes when you create a product that is not as good, but the financials are structurally different. So the idea of, like, if AI disrupts, like, a law firm, you look at this product or even, like, I don't know. What what what's the classic example of of of disruption that people go through? I don't know. But, like, this idea of [00:15:27] S0: like Yeah. The big thing was Innovator's Dilemma.