Uncapped with Jack Altman
· Jack Altman, Bret Taylor
[00:00:00] S0: Probably actually a good self-actualization anyway to go through that and be like, “Oh, I’m not my ability to code.” [00:00:00] S1: People’s vocations and their identities are often very intertwined. But once you absorb the technology, I don’t think it’s actually your identity. I’m actually quite optimistic that we will be human. We’ll all be status-seeking animals. We’ll all compete for the real estate here in San Francisco. Even though our standard of living will go way up, we will all be jealous of people still. We will all compete. As a consequence, I think humanity will be just fine. That’s my view on it. It’s hard to imagine, but it doesn’t mean it’s going to be catastrophically bad. I think it’ll be largely good for humanity. [00:00:00] S0: Everybody’s already completely addicted to their phones and it’s a disaster. Now you have all this AI happening. A friend of mine was saying that he basically thinks it’ll actually become a status signal to become increasingly offline. That might be an interesting call. I do think people will hit a tipping point with a lot of this stuff where all of it will happen. Intelligence will get so good and then people will just be like, “Enough of all of this.” Hopefully there’s a big screen time reduction. You saw parents revolting about social media for their kids. A bunch of schools now, all the parents are like, “Nobody takes a phone. Everybody agrees.” So that’ll be an interesting thing. Is there an essential humanity that gets sharpened?
· Jack Altman, Bret Taylor
[00:00:00] S0: Everybody’s already completely addicted to their phones and it’s a disaster. Now you have all this AI happening. A friend of mine was saying that he basically thinks it’ll actually become a status signal to become increasingly offline. That might be an interesting call. I do think people will hit a tipping point with a lot of this stuff where all of it will happen. Intelligence will get so good and then people will just be like, “Enough of all of this.” Hopefully there’s a big screen time reduction. You saw parents revolting about social media for their kids. A bunch of schools now, all the parents are like, “Nobody takes a phone. Everybody agrees.” So that’ll be an interesting thing. Is there an essential humanity that gets sharpened? [00:00:00] S1: I hope so. I love the iPhone. It’s one of the greatest inventions of this century. I hope we’re not staring at a glowing rectangle in 10 years. [00:00:00] S0: It can’t be the right way to do it.
· Jack Altman, Bret Taylor
[00:00:00] S0: It can’t be the right way to do it. [00:00:00] S1: Now that AI can talk to you and you have human-computer interfaces, this is my hope. Hopefully humanity can become more self-actualized as a consequence of this. That is the purpose of technology. Just like the Industrial Revolution had Luddites, and globalization led to job loss in the Rust Belt of the United States but certain goods got less expensive in other parts, there’s not going to be no issues. It would be callous and insincere to imply otherwise. But I think it will largely just really accelerate humanity in a really positive way. For me—and for anyone thinking about how this impacts them—have a more flexible view of your own identity. How you do your job every day doesn’t define you. I love this metaphor, because it was so obvious before and after. Imagine being an accountant before Microsoft Excel and after Microsoft Excel. So much of the act of being an accountant was adding up numbers. Now it’s building a model. What you did, the value you provided, didn’t change, but the actual act of doing it is completely different. The skillset is completely different. A lot of us are just going to go through that in a very compressed period of time. It’s okay. It’s just a little anxiety-ridden.
· Jack Altman
[00:00:00] S0: My last question about AI. There was a shot from Anthropic at OpenAI around the Super Bowl commercial about the ads. There were good ads, they were funny, but I think it sparked a debate around the whole topic of the role of these foundation labs, how they should bring AI to the masses, the appropriate business model, the trade-offs. You’ve obviously had experience with social networks and a lot of different pricing models. You know OpenAI well. You know how to consume AI. I’m curious how you think about this. What is the right thing when you consider a lot of these dimensions?
· Bret Taylor
[00:00:00] S1: I’m very optimistic about ads done in a tasteful way. I started my career at Google. I think I arrived the day AdWords came out. It was interesting because when I started there—you’ll laugh at this—everyone in my family when they found out I was working there was like, “How do they even make money?” and laughed. I think I listened to the Acquired podcast and it’s literally the most profitable business ever created. But as a consequence, Google is widely available for free for people who want to use it and has created an economy around it for demand-fulfillment advertising. There are reasonable criticisms of advertising if it starts to get in the way of the sanctity of what the AI is recommending you, which was the backhanded implication. But I just think it’s not true. I actually think if ads are clearly labeled and not changing the experience, it’s really aligned with the OpenAI mission. Our mission is to ensure artificial general intelligence benefits humanity. Obviously the most important part of that mission is safety. But after you get past the Hippocratic Oath—first, do no harm—the job of a doctor is to cure you. So after you say, “okay, it’s safe”, how do we widely distribute it? We have an obligation, being mission-driven. I’m the chair of the foundation and on the PBC board. Our mission matters. Being able to offer it for free widely is a huge part of that and we need to be able to afford that. I just find it inauthentic. This is an incredible opportunity to provide this at scale to society. The idea that it will somehow taint the experience is too strong.
· Jack Altman, Bret Taylor
[00:00:00] S0: It’s funny. I grew up in the suburb of St. Louis, so it’s a whole different world than what we’re in now. When I think about people that I grew up with or from other parts of the country, $20 a month is a lot. It’s easy to forget in our ecosystem that not everybody wants to or can spend $20 a month on stuff, but they really want these services. If the whole world had to pay for Google, that’d be a worse world. It’s really good that everybody has access. [00:00:00] S1: Absolutely. I just think it’s important we do it well and we will. [00:00:00] S0: People want good ads. I like good ads. If people bring me the right product, I’m like, “That’s really nice.” [00:00:00] S1: This is the other part of it. You want businesses to be able to grow from scratch. There’s such a purpose to it. It just needs to be done in the right way. I find the discussion not particularly authentic. [00:00:00] S0: The last thing I wanted to ask you about was how you’ve chosen to finance the company. I’m curious about three parts: 1) how you got started and working with Peter Fenton, then 2) what you’ve done since then to date and what’s been important for you, and then 3) as you think about the future, what’s important to you as you think about other partners or capitalizing? I’m asking because this is a podcast that has a lot of VC in it, so I gotta have a little flourish.