00:35:35 · Mikk
[00:35:35] S0: I wanted to ask this because I had a private equity GP of a B Fund on a show a half a year ago, Kai Doveska. They buy companies in Northern Europe. And he said that the mistake he sees constantly smaller private equity firms making is just squeezing everything out from this opportunity and then trying to sell. What they've done and what they see works extremely well is they leave quite a lot of upside for the next buyer. And by doing that, they've seeing many great outcomes.
00:36:08 · Frederik Brandis
[00:36:08] S1: I mean, I'm happy I've said it before in the podcast where you didn't prompt me towards this answer, where I said we do leave value creation for the next one and everything is a return on time. So I fully agree with that. If we do diligence, one core point is the equity story of the next owner. So you don't need your diligence like, hey, can I get a company to go to $10.15, 20,000,000 EBITDA, and is there enough and so on? What is the story of the next person? And they obviously want to see what you've done. They want to have it as easy as possible, and integration is kind of the foundation for that. But they also want to see that you have synergy potential. And of course, I can tell the story of synergies, but to give the story gravitas, I also want to have done it. But I don't need to do it in all of them because you leave value creation for the next owner. And that's also how you achieve outlier multiples. And that's also how you have enough space or time space is the wrong word, time for the founders to actually spend time on integration and M and A. So it's all a balance of where you spend your time and value for the next owner is 100% crucial to the entire journey. So I fully agree.
00:37:17 · Mikk
[00:37:17] S0: Now you as an investor, I want to come back to this finding those people, but maybe more specifically talking to those people and when it comes to building trust, reputation, credibility. Because I mean, some people enter the buy and build world with built in trust. There's through family, maybe networks, maybe institutional credentials. But then there is a lot of people who have none of that. And I was one of them, a lifelong salesperson. So what is your take when someone's listening and late twenties, early thirties, at the same time, they know how the game works. Are happy to grind, happy to work hard. What do you believe? What are some of the most effective ways on earning credibility and trust and then having a firm like yours to back them.
00:38:17 · Frederik Brandis
[00:38:17] S1: You know, so much into the kind of human game, as I mentioned before, I don't look is also a lie, but like I prioritize a conversation 10 times over a background. So for us, you could always reach out to us. We speak. And, you know, if you have great energy and, you know, you have, like, very analytical thinking and have a clear vision on how you want to do something, what you want to do, and why you want to do it. And that doesn't mean that you need to have an industry thesis kind of lined up, but it's like, hey, I'm looking for, like, I want to do a roll up. This is why I want to do it. I think this is super important. I've already looked into the markets, and these are my opinions. Like, what do you think? And, you know, just having a, you know, like, smart discussion goes a long way. So per se, there's nothing that you need to do from a background perspective. I do think that some deal making experience helps. It just makes you, especially at the beginning, much quicker. If you're n20, beginning 30, I think it's on the young side of things. I would probably recommend you whatever your background before is to maybe go, you know, as a funders associate or M and A associate or whatever in a roll up, no matter who it is backed by, whether it's an entrepreneurial roll up or PE back roll up, to kind of learn what really works well, to then take these learnings into your own journey, I think is probably the most effective way to also be interesting for investors. But I think interesting, be interesting to investors should always be a secondary motivator. The primary motivator should be, how can I really build a successful company or roll up in our specific case? And seeing what works is always a good idea, then doing that for two, three, four years, and then maybe starting when you're 34, 35 is probably good advice for where I stand.
00:40:14 · Mikk
[00:40:14] S0: Before we hit record today, you said obviously you're extremely busy. A lot is going on. But for some reason you coming on the show, I heard about you and your story, I think, like seven, eight months ago. So in order for you to attract those special individuals, you have to become more public. So what is your view when it comes to what are you going to share and what are you maybe keeping private? Where will be the line and where is the line?
00:40:48 · Frederik Brandis
[00:40:48] S1: So yeah, I'm becoming more public by also speaking to you today, which to me is an obligation. So I'd rather not be more public just because I'm not a character that wants to be in the somewhat public light. But obviously, showing presence in ecosystems, spreading the word on what we're doing is extremely important to kind of be on the radar for founders and people who want to do this kind of roll ups. So that's why I'm becoming more public. Generally speaking, I'm a huge believer in execution. It's not rocket science what we do. So I would say, especially comparing ourselves to traditional private equity, we are more open and more sharey. We syndicate our investments often with co investors, not always, but often. You know, we're just looking at a new deal. We have a co investor asking like, Hey, guys, we have our CEO. We haven't really have a strong view on this. What did your DG say? And we're happy to share. So I'm a strong believer in excellence and execution. So we are, relatively speaking, more open and happy to share. I mean, as a concrete example, mentioned Aven Academy before. These people, they don't have to take money effectively from us. We're still happy to share and support them. I strongly believe the kind of positive value contribution to the ecosystem. And I think there's so much to be built. And I also don't mind competition because I think the potential is so huge and kind of educating the market. I think there's rather positive synergy by having a bit more competition. So generally speaking, I'm more open than than, I guess, many of our private equity peers. Having said that, I mean, I don't want to, you know, like, I don't need to print on my forehead on what we do. But it's also not a state secret.