00:52:47 · Ty Morse
[00:52:47] S0: Yeah. If you have a different opinion about him than he may have, that's okay. But he just... He wants to make sure that basically you're not, like, unfairly targeting him for, like, having a car where... Yeah. Which is, like, a thinking person's,
00:53:01 · Eric Jorgenson
[00:53:01] S1: like, you know, way to go through life anyway. Like, I I think I think he... He's just become a lightning rod for, you know, contrary. He's one of the most famous people alive. And, in some ways, courted that. In some ways, it's just a natural byproduct of building some of the things he's building and having led the organizations that he's leading. But it is a very tricky thing. And I think he has a deep sense of, like, you know, right and wrong and injustice. And I imagine, you know, in particular, like, with his dad. Right? His dad is a relatively well known to be a a liar and a manipulator and has abused, you know, him and his family in the past. And, like, so people publicly saying, like, oh, you just, you know, you inherited your wealth because, you know, the dad claimed to be sort of providing these, these benefits. Like, that has to really hit the heart, like, a a very soft spot, and has to be enraging. Like, I... You know, how could it be anything else? Like, this person who tormented you claiming credit for something that you truly did yourself, and then other people who are your enemies for their own, you know, personal reasons than attack you, like, based on this false claim. Like, of course, anybody would would be like... That's not the kind of like, oh, yeah, just steal yourself to that kind of dislike. Of course, that would bother you. I can't imagine handling that kind of pressure. Right? Like, how many people want a 100,000,000 enemies, and are willing to stand on their principles to take that, and still show up and keep going over and over again. Like, it is a very... I do think he is very principled, and he's willing to endure being disliked to stand by those principles. And I think that's a, like, interesting and admirable thing. You know, the the Bill Gates example, of, like, Bill Gates claims to be a
00:55:01 · Ty Morse, Eric Jorgenson
[00:55:01] S0: Environmentally friendly, you know, let's save the environment. Yeah. He's, like, shorting Tesla. Exactly. [00:55:06] S1: Yeah. And, like, that is not... Those are not actions that Elon would take. Like, and there's many things that he could be rightly criticized for doing, and he he does seek negative or seek critical feedback on actions. But I do think, you know, to your point, expects a level of sort of, solidarity and loyalty, in particular from the people who are, like, closest to him on a public lane when he has so many people actively trying to undermine him, which which then undermines the success of the missions. Right? Like, there is an... A strong extent to which, like, additional capital, additional employees, all of these things come from public perception of him and his work and the importance of the missions. And, you know, it's not helpful to have people throwing Molotov cocktails at Tesla dealerships. That does not help Tesla. That does not help achieve the mission of solving climate change. And so I think, like, there's an extent to which being disliked... Being liked or disliked or at least understood to be on a mission and a principled person on a mission is an important part of getting these things done. [00:56:08] S0: There's one aspect which is setting the vision, setting the mission, making sure that everyone's aligned towards it. [00:56:14] S1: Mhmm.
00:56:14 · Eric Jorgenson, Ty Morse
[00:56:14] S1: Mhmm. [00:56:14] S0: There's another thing about creating enemies and chaos and using, you know, the little finger line chaos is a ladder. I really think that Elon has, like, fully embraced that philosophy of basically create chaos and as, you know, things are happening all over the place, just be better at playing the game in real time. If lots of shit is happening and there's too many signals, other people's brains will get fried, whereas he... That's where he's able to lock in. [00:56:39] S1: Yeah. I feel like when he sees the game board clearly from a really zoomed out view, what looks like chaos to people sort of with a narrow view, he can still navigate really cleanly through, because he's moving really fast, and he understands, like, the ultimate goal. And I think if you have those two things, like, the short term stuff that looks like chaos is just kind of noise. [00:56:58] S0: Well, I also think that the fact that he is able to play in that way and he knows that the easiest way to play is where other people are kind of on... You know, if ever... If the ground is changing [00:57:09] S1: Yeah. [00:57:10] S0: Then it's easy to make a make a move that wouldn't be able to be made if the ground wasn't changing. And so it seems like whenever there is like a peacetime moment, he will just inject uncertainty, chaos, action until the ground is moving again.
00:57:10 · Ty Morse, Eric Jorgenson
[00:57:10] S0: Then it's easy to make a make a move that wouldn't be able to be made if the ground wasn't changing. And so it seems like whenever there is like a peacetime moment, he will just inject uncertainty, chaos, action until the ground is moving again. [00:57:25] S1: Well, and his his speed causes Yeah. That chaos. Right? Like, you know, when he launches a new program or a new company, like, his sudden push towards data centers in space really changes the the board of Yes. Who's investing what capital into what different Yeah. [00:57:39] S0: It is. Mean, even unlike the data centers in space thing, he was asked on a podcast how he came up with that idea, and he said it just went viral on Twitter a few months ago. And I'm like, this... But then you look at the valuation of SpaceX from when he comes up with this idea to today, and it's like four x higher. And I'm like this, you know, the first twenty years of SpaceX are just one fourth of an idea that he has in his mind. And then he's going to go, you know, raise a 100,000,000,000 or something in an IPO for.
00:57:39 · Ty Morse, Eric Jorgenson
[00:57:39] S0: It is. Mean, even unlike the data centers in space thing, he was asked on a podcast how he came up with that idea, and he said it just went viral on Twitter a few months ago. And I'm like, this... But then you look at the valuation of SpaceX from when he comes up with this idea to today, and it's like four x higher. And I'm like this, you know, the first twenty years of SpaceX are just one fourth of an idea that he has in his mind. And then he's going to go, you know, raise a 100,000,000,000 or something in an IPO for. [00:58:07] S1: It's also... It's an interesting like, Starlink part two, where like Starlink is actually an outcome of like, hey, have all this volume. Yeah. We have launch capacity because we've created it. And rather than wait for the market to figure out what to put in it, we'll just start putting up our own stuff. And I I think data centers in space is basically the same thing, for the Starship program. Max Olsen's essay talks about this, like the integration of volume and iteration speed, being integral to kind of