Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:06:58 · Lenny Rachitsky, Tara Seshan
[01:06:58] S1: That is such a good point. I'm imagining an exec meeting where you're trying to pitch the exec on, here's what the plan is, here's what I think we should be doing. So much of that is helping them see here's the work I did to get there, here's all the steps. And so it makes sense that you need the AI to show you that same sort of work. That it did the proof of work essentially versus engineering where like, "Okay, I don't need to know all of the little architectural decisions you made, just what does it look like? Is it passing all the tests that we have?" So that is a really good point, just how different those two models are. And also there's the context. Does it have the context it needs to do the thing that you want it to do? Does it know? Can it see your email? Can it see all your notion docs? Such a good point. So I see the challenge in your job to make all this work is one product. Tricky, tricky. Amazing. Anything else before we get to our very exciting lightning round? [01:07:54] S0: Yeah, let's jump into it. [01:07:56] S1: With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round. I've got five questions for you. Are you ready? [01:08:00] S0: Yes. [01:08:02] S1: What are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people?
01:08:06 · Tara Seshan
[01:08:06] S0: One book I really recommend to people is Barbarian Days by William Finnegan. I don't know if you've read it. It's about a life of a man who is a New Yorker reporter, but how he fell in love with surfing as his passion. The thing I took away from the book is that one can be deeply passionate and dedicated and have something be your life purpose without you being good at it. And it is about the art of falling in love with surfing and his striving for excellence and perfection whilst knowing that he will never reach it. It is such a compelling and transformative story for how I think one should continue to live our lives. I really, really love that book. Another book that I might recommend as a book that people should read, I really love Anna Karenina. I've been rereading the classics lately, and I love Anna Karenina because it's a book of layers. And I think that a huge part of what we're going to have to do in this new era is transform ourselves or take ourselves on a journey to do different things than what we were used to. And when I think about that book, I think about when I was 13 and I read it, I understood basically the plot. When I read it at 17, I understood the European history dynamics and the class warfare. And then when I read it at 30, I was like, oh, this is a story about a woman and humans. And it just reminds me of growth and that it is possible to look at the same thing through multiple different lenses as you continue to grow, which I think is the challenge that's ahead for all of us as we consider our careers as well.
01:09:47 · Lenny Rachitsky, Tara Seshan
[01:09:47] S1: It's interesting on both these, I could connect to AI in the time we're living in now too. I also recently read Anna Karenina. [01:09:54] S0: What did you think? [01:09:55] S1: Earlier this year. Amazing. I've never read it before. I saw it on a book list of here's what the smartest people in the world have read and it's a whole list of books and that was one that I hadn't read. So I'm like, "I got to read that." Yeah, it was amazing. Someone gave away the ending, which made it less surprising. I don't want to give anything away. No spoilers. And I also felt like it was very long. But now I'm reading The Power Broker, which has set the new precedent for a long... Been reading it for half my life at this point. [01:10:23] S0: I love The Power Broker. Another thing that I highly recommend to people is if anyone follows the Substack, like Simon Hazel's Substack where he does a slow read of important books. So he did One of War and Peace and he's doing one of Wolf Hall, I think, or he did one of Wolf Hall, which is the Hilary Mantel book, take it chapter by chapter. That's the only way to read something like The Power Broker or War and Peace or even Anna Karenina. It's chapter by chapter.
01:10:23 · Tara Seshan, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:10:23] S0: I love The Power Broker. Another thing that I highly recommend to people is if anyone follows the Substack, like Simon Hazel's Substack where he does a slow read of important books. So he did One of War and Peace and he's doing one of Wolf Hall, I think, or he did one of Wolf Hall, which is the Hilary Mantel book, take it chapter by chapter. That's the only way to read something like The Power Broker or War and Peace or even Anna Karenina. It's chapter by chapter. [01:10:47] S1: Speaking of that, there's someone, I forget who, told me this, there's a 99% Invisible book club breakdown of The Power Broker where it's 13 episodes an hour or two each, and they go through a couple chapters of the book one at a time and talk about it. And they have special guests like Pete Buttigieg and AOC and folks that lived in that area and they talk about the story, and it's so fun to read and listen to their analysis of it. And then they have Robert Caro come on a couple times, I guess. [01:11:16] S0: Whoa, that's amazing. [01:11:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Hot tip. Okay, we'll keep going with our very lightning round. Favorite recent movie or TV show you've really enjoyed, if you've had time to watch anything.
01:11:18 · Lenny Rachitsky, Tara Seshan
[01:11:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Hot tip. Okay, we'll keep going with our very lightning round. Favorite recent movie or TV show you've really enjoyed, if you've had time to watch anything. [01:11:27] S0: Of course I watched The Odyssey. I found it to be an incredible, incredible film. It is about AI, or my hot take is that it's about AI or Christopher Nolan's view on how AI transforms society, which I loved and I highly recommend watching The Odyssey. He's just an incredible director and has bridged artistry and commercial success in a way that I think no other modern director has done. I also recently watched the film Rashomon, which is the Akira Kurosawa film that for the first time did that technique of telling a story through multiple people's perspectives where you never know what was true in the end. That technique in film was pioneered by Kurosawa. And it reminds me what one can do under constraints. That film was made in the 50s. It was black and white. You know there's a guy holding the camera and yet it is so perfect and it is such a tasteful, innovative, amazing example of creativity. And what I'm reminded of watching that film is I have a hundred times the power and tools that he had making that film in my iPhone. And what's my excuse for not elevating my ambitions and making better stuff? [01:12:42] S1: All comes back ambition. On the Odyssey, I'm still trying to get tickets. It's so hard. I slept on it and now it's impossible for a month, there's no seats anywhere.
01:12:42 · Lenny Rachitsky, Tara Seshan
[01:12:42] S1: All comes back ambition. On the Odyssey, I'm still trying to get tickets. It's so hard. I slept on it and now it's impossible for a month, there's no seats anywhere. [01:12:53] S0: Kevin Klock got us tickets at 10:00 PM at the Metreon earlier this week. It was so good. [01:12:58] S1: Next time call me. I'm in whenever you see it. [01:13:02] S0: For sure. [01:13:02] S1: Oh, man, I have bots running on it. I have a person working on it. I have a friend. We're all trying to find a seat. [01:13:07] S0: It's amazing. You're going to love it and I can't wait to hear what you think after you see it. If you agree with me that it is about AI and the collapse of morality. [01:13:15] S1: Okay. No spoilers. Hopefully by the time this comes out, I have seen it, but if not, if anyone has hookups, please tell me. And I'm trying to do the IMAX full power Metreon sort of thing. Yeah. Okay, next question. Favorite or interesting AI product that you've recently discovered? Ideally not OpenAI product, but you can also go there if you want.