Buyers and Builders
00:26:58 · Mark Sinatra
When you think about these small medium sized companies, whether it's 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 employees, you know, one, two, three, four employees, that makes a huge difference, right, on the fabric of the business. And so you have to ensure, you've got to preserve and you've got to protect the culture that you're trying to build and ensure that, you know, any new hire is going to be additive to that. But number two is, you know, the the cadence and the pace of the work. You know, we were trying to like, you know, rebuild this this business, right? We we had a a really tough downturn, you know, a few years in, lost a large customer, and we had to like work really hard to rebuild the business. And that required a lot of, you know, a lot of work to do so, and folks who were able to work at that fast pace were the ones who were able to be successful and they really did well at the business. And so I started to use behavioral analysis when it came to screening and identifying what are those attributes that, you know, folks are either born with or maybe they're formed when they're a kid or when they're in high school. But like, what are those attributes and how can we better identify them in the hiring process? And what we did was, we kind of benchmarked and said, okay, well, who are top performers in each of these roles? Right? Sales, executive leadership, different operations departments. And let's see what... How they score, you know, on on these behavioral profiles. And we use a tool called predictive index, like, for years. Like, I've been using it for fifteen years. And it's one of those things where, know, it's just it's just part of the process. Right? It's just you should never, and we never made, you know, decisions solely based off of that, but it really helped really kinda unpack a lot of layers in, in, into the hiring process. And we figured out, like, the ideal profiles for different roles in the business. And more specifically, I focused a lot on, on like any anybody who is in a client service or a sales role on, on a, you know, really a particular combination of behavioral attributes where, you know, they had a leaning towards, you know, being extroverted. They also, particularly in sales, they had a leaning towards being a little bit more independent, versus dependent or overly collaborative.
00:29:43 · Mark Sinatra
But the most important part was, their ability to work at a fast pace and their level of urgency. And I found that as one of those behavioral attributes that really was a differentiator in team members that that did well at the company and they and they helped us grow versus team members that had a... Had trouble just just fitting in.
00:30:07 · Mikk
[00:30:07] S0: That's excellent. I... We have another sales guy joining on Monday, so I'll try to figure out the level of urgency, him being independent or dependent. So this was the reason I wanted to ask those questions, because we're a small team, 15 people, and we expect to grow faster than we... We've been able to do so far. So I think that's that's an important part. Another part I want to ask, like, day to day. Like, how do you... Because every single week I talk to so many people and... I mean, the market is tough. People are working hard. These are young people like folks leaving their great jobs in the BE firms or or folks who've been doing that for a long, long time. But people are working very hard, very fast pace. So how was your day to day when it comes to emotionally, physically overcoming this... What is the right way to put it? This crisis. Because that's that's also the same thing. Like, it it will break some people, and at the same time, will make some people. In your case, these tough times, these make you made you, and from there, you you were able to... Obviously, it was a little longer time. I'm not talking about the... A few year period, but it was a it was a long journey, but this this tough moment didn't break you. Let's put it in this way. So I'm asking this because there are some... Was close. Okay.
00:31:39 · Mark Sinatra
[00:31:39] S1: It's tough. It's really tough, you know, when when you're you're in the heat of the battle and it's... There's a tremendous amount of pressure and stress. And a lot of that is self induced. Right? Like in my case, like I I carried a a a lot of lot of weight in in terms of, like, trying to turn this company around. What a couple of things I think I did well and a couple of things I didn't do well in that, in that context. You know, one thing I started to kind of figure out, and it wasn't until like, you know, I was just, at a point where, you know, I was probably 15, 20 pounds overweight, wasn't taking care of myself. Right? And I remember one day I walked into the office. And again, I was just, you know, working, you know, just a lot of hours, right, on on the business, trying trying to rebuild it. And I brought in a bag of mail that I hadn't checked from, like, you know, my... Not from the business, but, you know, from from where I was living, from my house. And it had been about, honestly, like this is embarrassing, but about, you know, thirty to sixty days of mail. I brought it in and one of my managers saw that and she's like, are you okay? Like, I mean, what, you know, are you... Looks like you're just... She was like, just checking on me. And, know, it was very, very nice of her. But at that moment, it it kinda dawned on me. I said, listen, like, I've got to start, you know, at least I've got to do a better job just taking care of myself because it's extremely visible to the rest of the company. And, you know, what are they what are they thinking? Right? And it's something that, you know, CEOs, particularly new CEOs, it's it's easy to to forget, and to understand. But every everything you say, everything you do, and things you don't do, and things you don't say, people notice that stuff and employees are extremely smart and observant. And so I said, listen, like, I've got to take a, do a better job, take care of myself for me. Right? But also for the business. And so once I kinda understood that, I just placed more of a premium on, you know, exercising and trying to eat, eat, eat, eat healthy and, just overall, just just, you know, really kind of do a better job. So I started enforcing, and having some self accountability to time blocking my my week and my calendar and reserving that time for what I would call renewal, right?
00:34:34 · Mark Sinatra
Renewal, personal renewal time. Now, a couple of things that I would say I did not do well during that time. You know, I could have done a better job reaching out to the board or investors, you know, for for support. And that's one thing, Mikk, that doesn't get talked to him a lot about in in in ETA or search is, you know, when there's when there's a tough time that the CEO is is going through, you know, from a business perspective or really anything, right? You know, it's it's kind of a lonely, you know, being a CEO is lonely. Right? I mean, like, it's like you you kind of tell yourself a story that you don't have anybody to reach out to. Well, you know, you can't talk to your, you know, employees or management team or, you know, it's like, it's, you know, I'm not sure if you should reach out to other CEOs and, you know, take up their time. But the reality is is that human nature is like, you know, people are here to listen. People are here to help. And, and I, I could have done a better job, you know, reaching out to, to investors or my board, you know, for, support, during that time. I remember, you know, those, those couple of times when I did, they were extremely helpful and supportive. So anyway, just something to keep in mind, right? You know, as a, as a leader, you know, when you're going through a challenging time, don't be afraid to to pick up the phone and, you know, call one of your investors, call call a board member they've got a good relationship with, and and download them. I they're here to support you.
00:36:28 · Mikk, Mark Sinatra
[00:36:28] S0: Did you think back then that it's like sign of weakness or something? The reason you weren't doing this? [00:36:35] S1: Could be subconsciously. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I I mean, absolutely. But, you know, it's just such a flawed notion. Right? Like, thinking that that would be a sign of weakness when when, you know, it's actually a sign of strength. Right? The ability to to be vulnerable as a leader is is a sign of strength. And, you know, at the time, like, was, just inexperienced. Right? And I didn't have, like, that proper perspective. [00:37:09] S0: Now surviving the, let's call them dark years, then you recovered. So give us a timeline, like how was the then the growth of the company, eventually you sold it, you joined the larger group. Give us a timeline of this. And then last part of the podcast, let's cover of what you do today.