Acquired
00:41:03 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[00:41:03] S1: to air it on our airwaves. Yep. And that dynamic back in that era had set up this incredible entrepreneurial ecosystem where you had these independent production companies and the creators they work with who got actual ownership of the shows and the syndication rights. It's almost like Silicon Valley startups, this, like, capitalistic entrepreneurial incentive to go make these amazing things. And Seinfeld is one of the last ones out of this system. [00:41:29] S0: And it had power law dynamics where just like the venture capital industry, most shows fail. But for the shows that succeed, they succeed massively. And the cap tables are like a bunch of individuals or of... Or small production company. It's not like all the profits just go into a big network the way that they do today. So you actually could have literally exactly like Silicon Valley power law outcomes to individuals on a cap table. [00:41:57] S1: Yep. So back to Seinfeld and Jerry and Larry and this meeting with NBC when NBC says, we will promise you we are going to make what you are pitching us. That is an extremely valuable commodity that they are giving Jerry and Larry because they're saying, yeah. Yeah. You know, go get a production company, and you work out your own deal with them, but we'll make it. Usually, it's reversed. The production companies are making pilots and concepts for specials and scripts [00:42:28] S0: Right.
00:42:28 · Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal
[00:42:28] S0: Right. [00:42:29] S1: That they're pitching the networks and desperately trying to get the green light to air them. NBC is now saying to the individual creators, to Jerry and Larry, you go find your own production company, cut your own deal with them, we guarantee we'll make it. This is like It's free money. To use a Silicon Valley analogy, it's like if you're investing in a series a and somebody has already guaranteed that they're gonna market up 10 x in a series c afterwards. [00:42:55] S0: Right. You write this check, and, then there's another check waiting right here for you. [00:42:59] S1: Yep. So Jerry and Larry and the agents, Shapiro and West, they're just given the golden goose here. So this is where that very nice production company back when Jerry was being considered to be cast for that ABC pilot comes back into the picture. Castle Rock. And, Jerry says to George Shapiro, alright. Great. Well, why don't we just use those guys from last year? They seem nice enough. And boom, Castle Rock becomes the production company. Now, Castle Rock, you might know of it, or you might just know of it from watching Seinfeld episodes and seeing their title card at the end of the screen. Ben, what's the awesome history of Castle Rock? [00:43:43] S0: Alright. So we're gonna go back slightly pre Castle Rock. In 1982, Columbia Pictures, the [00:43:51] S1: Major Hollywood film studio. Yep. [00:43:54] S0: Gets bought for $750,000,000 by, longtime listeners will know this, Coca Cola. [00:44:03] S1: The Coca Cola company acquired episode crossover.
00:44:03 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[00:44:03] S1: The Coca Cola company acquired episode crossover. [00:44:07] S0: Coke is trying to get into the movie business. They just had a new CEO, Roberto Goizueta, take the helm and is is trying to diversify. And I think [00:44:18] S1: part of the rationale here is, like, oh, hey. Coke products in movie theaters, films, and then product placements in movies. What if we just own a studio? There can be some efficiencies here, some diversification as you say, you know, sure. Whatever. [00:44:32] S0: Maybe. Okay. So that's Columbia and Coca Cola. A few years after Coke buys Columbia, Castle Rock Entertainment is formed in 1987 by five partners, including Rob Reiner. [00:44:46] S1: The successful young actor and director. He'd been on, All in the Family and directed Spinal Tap, I think, in the princess bride. Yes. Great movies. [00:44:54] S0: And the idea is to be a studio by artists, for artists, really talent friendly, flexible, and easy to work with. [00:45:01] S1: Yep. And, funded by the big bucks from the Coca Cola Company. [00:45:08] S0: This is the craziest thing. So Castle Rock is just this little thing with five partners that needs to get off [00:45:13] S1: the ground. Independent production company in the Silicon Valley style we were just talking about.
00:45:13 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[00:45:13] S1: the ground. Independent production company in the Silicon Valley style we were just talking about. [00:45:17] S0: Right. It could end up being very, very valuable because they're gonna own the forever rights to any downstream revenue after the first run on television of any shows that they make and any of the movies they make. But for now, it's just Five Guys. They find their way through Columbia Pictures to Coca Cola, and Coca Cola invest $30,000,000 at founding of Castle Rock. So the studio that funded and created Seinfeld was itself Coca Cola money. [00:45:46] S1: Amazing. Why do you think Jerry drinks Diet Coke inside them?
00:45:46 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[00:45:46] S1: Amazing. Why do you think Jerry drinks Diet Coke inside them? [00:45:51] S0: So at formation, Castle Rock is owned 60% by its founders, 40% by Coca Cola. And part of this deal is that Columbia would get to be the distributor of any films and TV shows that Castle Rock made. Yep. Which doesn't matter that much right now, but later on, you need a distributor in order to sell the syndication for reruns anywhere where you're gonna put reruns. So it's of a nice thing to put in the contract right now. Hey. We get to be the distributor down the line of anything you make. In November 1989, right around the same time that Seinfeld is kinda getting started here, Sony buys Columbia from Coke, which means the distribution rights that Columbia had goes to Sony. To Sony. Yep. In addition to a minority stake in Castle Rock itself. Sony did get the minority stake of Castle Rock, but they don't control it. So that distribution right goes with Columbia. Columbia to Sony. Yep. But the actual IP ownership stays with the independent Castle [00:46:57] S1: Rock. Mhmm. And this is all gonna become very, very important to the financial incentives behind Seinfeld as we go here.
00:46:57 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[00:46:57] S1: Rock. Mhmm. And this is all gonna become very, very important to the financial incentives behind Seinfeld as we go here. [00:47:04] S0: Yes. So taking a step back here, you're probably like, why don't I need to know all of that, and what's the bigger picture here? Just think about the incentives. If you're Castle Rock and you own the rights, all of your returns are super backloaded. If you make a show, like, great. I'm gonna make a show for $500,000 an episode. You're only getting paid $400,000 an episode by a network to buy that show from you. [00:47:32] S1: Right. You have the rights to lose money on every episode that